Office Hours – September 12, 2017

Recording of Office Hours hosted by Chris Davis on September 12, 2017.


Chris Davis: All right, so let’s go with the questions and the first question I received is from Kay. I’m going to put this up here. I get this question a lot, so I’ll be glad to have … I think I’ve touched on it before, but this will be the formal explanation of deliverability and I’ve got some additional resources for you as well Kay. [00:00:30] It looks like you probably … Since you’ve been going through the podcast, you’ve probably listened to Episode 4 on deliverability. I’ll put it in here. I’ll put it in the chat just for everybody.

“That’s great,” Kay says. She has and I will … This Migration Guide I’m going to put in the chat as well. You know what? I realize, Kay can, that’s a [00:01:00] universal name. I said she. Kay, I hope I didn’t offend you if you are a … Are you male or female? I just want to make sure? All right, all right thank you, thank you for that Kay, all right so I’ve been accurate.

Here’s how I want to break down deliverability and in the podcast, we talked about all of the factors that play into landing in the inbox and on the Migration Guide, it [00:01:30] shows you how to get set-up to where you can start sending, but both of them, kind of the gap is the deliverability, right? Kay says, ”I’ve got a client with some major deliverability problems just moving into AC. Can you talk me through how to get them some help please? I know enough to know they have problems, but not enough to steer them on how to fix it and I also want to help them not make things any worse?”

Absolutely, great, great concerns and it sounds [00:02:00] like you’re a consultant or have an agency, so they did a good job with hiring you because some people could care less. They could throw it on them like, “Hey, you figure it out.” Here’s how it works for everybody. Deliverability is based on the relationship and the platform in which that initial relationship is established.

Let’s say I’m using a platform called Monk-e-Mail. [00:02:30] We’ve got this new email marketing platform called Monk-e-Mail. I’m building a list. I’m building my list and the second that lead comes in from a form or some API, some way in that platform the relationship begins right there. Most of the time you want to use the platforms form because it starts the relationship off on the right foot.

Now that the relationship [00:03:00] has started, you’re starting from scratch. Everybody starts from scratch in the new platform, so if you’re not already … If you don’t already have a list and you start from scratch, as you build, maybe it takes you a couple years or so, but that platform has the relationship with all of those contacts that first existed on.

I’m using Monk-e-Mail and I’m sending out email and my deliverability is [00:03:30] pretty high, low spam complaints. I’m getting really good results, right? That relationship is only specific to Monk-e-Mail, that platform. The second you moved to any other platform, it doesn’t matter if it’s ActiveCampaign. If for any platform, it could be another platform outside of ActiveCampaign, guess what? Even though the contact is the same, the relationship is not. The relationship [00:04:00] does not carry over. It doesn’t matter how much data you carry over. You can carry over the custom fields, the tags and all of that. The relationship does not carry over.

It’s like an athlete getting traded from one team to the next. You have to learn the system. You have to build your … We just have to get to know you as a player. It’s the same thing, so often times when people have major deliverability problems, they’re not really deliverability problems when you’re [00:04:30] first getting started. They’re just the natural relationship building process and we don’t know it, but a lot of times we just assume that since we’ve captured these contacts in another platform, that relationship is going to carry over to the next platform and it actually does not because those two platforms don’t share information. We have as far as ActiveCampaign, we have no clue how those contacts have [00:05:00] been performing on your other platform. We don’t know, so though they exist, we have no clue who they are pretty so how do you circumvent that?

Well, to your benefit if you do these steps, if you take this approach, you will be fail deliverability proof. What you want to do is you want to identify, so now we’re tying in the Migration Guide, along with some deliverability and we are going to fill that [00:05:30] hole. What I recommend doing is you can import your contacts from your previous provider, no harm in that.

But what you need to do is before you cut that previous provider off, you need to figure out what the most engaged leads are and when the last time they received communication from you was. Those are two critical things that are going to annihilate [00:06:00] your deliverability if you don’t have a means of capturing them. A lot of times deliverability and platform B is dependent on the lack of information on engagement in platform A.

The reason why I say do that, you have all these contacts migrated, then you go back into I’m going to say Monk-e-Mail. I’m going into Monk-e-Mail right now and I’ll say, “Okay, I’ve got a chunk of 564 [00:06:30] contacts that I’ve opened, that have really good engagement over the last 30 days.” So I’m going to go into ActiveCampaign and tag those contacts as my “engaged leads.” These are the people that since they’re already engaging, you have the highest probability for them to continue to engage.

What I would do then is having a strategy to start [00:07:00] emailing them because they’re the ones that have the best probability of me showing my new provider, ActiveCampaign, hey look, people like my stuff. People open my stuff, because ActiveCampaign doesn’t know. I see all the questions. I’m going to get to them as well. I just want to finish my thought. I just wanted …

Kay, Megan, I see all of the chat. I just haven’t read them. I just want you to know I see them, all right? Now I’m sending to these [00:07:30] contacts, but what did I just assume? These are very critical steps. I’m shocked that nobody outlines this stuff because a lot of times these platforms just want you to send mail, mail, mail. But listen to this, I said start setting. Well, what are you going to send?

Another thing that we need to do before we can start anticipating the deliverability is get a consistent sending strategy. When you migrate to a new platform, you should have at least a six-month [00:08:00] email sending strategy, at least six months and I’m talking about consistently. It starts with your most engaged leads and as you see your deliverability and things improved, you can start expanding more and more leads in your database.

But what I like to use migration for is a good opportunity to purge contacts. If you’re migrating from Monk-e-Mail [00:08:30] or ActiveCampaign and you see that you’ve identified 150 people that haven’t opened an email within the last nine months, I would even put those people in. Now again, here’s the catch: a lot of times these platforms won’t tell you who’s engaging and who’s not, so you have no parameter of what type of contact I’m importing into ActiveCampaign. But that doesn’t stop [00:09:00] the expectation of ActiveCampaign to deliver the email.

I’m not saying that you’re wrong or shame on you. I’m just saying this is how we think. This is just our approach. I know it because I’ve been there and I’ve had to go through the deliverability, but once I’ve done this I’ve never had an issue. I’ve never had an issue with deliverability because I’ve always continued to market to my most engaged leads first.

Thirdly, I would say or I don’t even know what number I’m on? [00:09:30] Lastly, how about that? Lastly, I’ll say use your migration to another platform as an opportunity to launch a new offer and/or product. That is the best way to get the highest deliverability out the gate is to say, “You know what? I’m creating a new free offer.” You know it resonates with your audience.

You put that up and use the form from your new platform [00:10:00] because now people are enticed with downloading it and they are more than likely going to open those emails because they really want what you have to offer and that’s going to train ActiveCampaign as well on, “Wow, people really like your stuff. They’re really opening your emails a lot. We are going to make sure … We’re going to bump the reputation of your account,” because there are reputations of accounts in ActiveCampaign because you also have to remember, [00:10:30] Kay, you’re responsible. Just look at the time you’ve taken to email me this. That shows responsibility.

You would be shocked at how many irresponsible people sign up for ActiveCampaign and they just blast. Sometimes they bought a list. Sometimes the list that they imported came from a partner or a friend. There’s all kind of shady practices that go on, so since we can’t. There’s no way we can look at each individual account [00:11:00] with personal eyes. We have algorithms that run. Make sure as you’re sending, we’re looking for those indicators like, “That’s great. Oh, oh, yes, yes, that’s great,” and we keep giving you points and points and points. That’s the key of deliverability.

Now I will share with you this. None of it makes a difference if your message does not resonate with your audience. It doesn’t matter. You can do everything that I just outlined. If your message doesn’t [00:11:30] resonate with your audience, you’re going to end up in the spam either way because they’re not going to open up your emails ever because they don’t care about what you have to offer, so that’s the underlying theme in it all is that you’ve done your due diligence to know your audience. You researched your audience. You’ve been serving them. You know what they are anticipating.

You should feel so confident in you know what? It doesn’t matter if I have to migrate tomorrow. I know [00:12:00] which group of highest engaged leads I can take with me and start sending and they’ll continue to open and then I’ll slowly start importing other email, then I know exactly what I want to tell them. That’s how you should be in your business.

A lot of times, if you do have a client that is experiencing deliverability problems, I would definitely look at their messaging, make sure it’s matched to their audience, look at their sending consistency, not only going forward, but in the past have a consistently sent to this list? [00:12:30] Again, a lot of times people will move to another platform, thinking it’s going to solve all their issues and it’s like, no, those issues carry over. You could have been sending crap beforehand and now you’re over because everybody else was saying, “ActiveCampaign’s amazing,” and in your mind you’re like, “Okay, now my emails will do even better.” Not necessarily.

It’s all about your messaging and how well it’s aligned with your audience, how consistent you’ve been in marketing to them [00:13:00] and how they’ve responded and have you been looking at that data and adjusting your messaging? When we say deliverability, I know it’s one word, but those are all of the factors that play a part.

All right, let me get to some of these questions. “How about manual imports of contacts?” Ob says. Yeah, so this is definitely affecting any way that a lead gets into [00:13:30] ActiveCampaign or a new platform, whether it’s importing them or them filling out a form. Then filling out a form is stronger than importing, so you’re saying if you have a CSV and you’re adding contacts or adding contacts one at a time, they’re both treated the same.

But what’s greater is the contact filling out the form. I’m speaking specific to ActiveCampaign. I can extrapolate out and think that [00:14:00] all other platforms are like this, but I’m speaking strictly from ActiveCampaign. If you get somebody to fill out a form, your deliverability is already starting off on a really good foot because remember when you import them, we don’t know where they came from? You can tell us. You can say, “Hey, they did …” But we’re going to wait and see when you email to see how it performs.

Does each of these trigger the relationship with the ESP? The ESP, you know what? The ESP is looking for that service provider. [00:14:30] The email service provider is looking at our server, the ActiveCampaign server or servers and is looking across the board of our reputation and saying, “Okay, so I’ve got a new email. I see a new name in this inbox.” They don’t know you. Remember, they don’t know you. The ESP doesn’t know you either, so these are two relationships you’re starting from scratch.

Let’s use Gmail as an email service provider. Gmail doesn’t know. This new email, it [00:15:00] recognizes the name because you’ve been sending from the name, but the server is new. That’s what the email provider looks at. You want to see the server did you say, “Okay, got an email from a new server,” so what Gmail is going to do is say, “Let me look at this server’s reputation. Oh, okay, they’ve got a pretty good reputation. All right, I’ll allow this went through, but I’m going to watch you closely.”

I know it does not seem fair because you’re like, “Look, [00:15:30] I’ve been emailing this contact just because my server changed give me the benefit of the doubt still.” That’s just not how it works. Oh great, Kay, Kay, okay, good, good, I’m glad I could bring that to your attention. All right, Megan, “Will my deliverability be negatively affected if I have contacts coming in through a zap when they’ve enrolled in a free course rather through an AC opt-in form?” Megan, I [00:16:00] would say that zap is not as strong as a form. However, it’s not going to have a negative impact. What I like to do is always try, try your hardest to get new contacts to engage with your email immediately. I’m telling you.

Now, if we’re talking about immediate engagement that is the king of deliverability. If you want to write that down, immediate engagement [00:16:30] is the king of deliverability. If someone exists in your database right now and five minutes later they interact with an email, Gmail loves you and so does ActiveCampaign. There’s no question there, right? There’s nothing to question because let’s take that same lead that gets your email and takes a week for it to open a week for them to open it. Gmail’s going to say, “Well, you know what? Maybe your stuff isn’t as [00:17:00] good as you’re saying it is? It took them a while. They did open it. I’ll give you some points, but it took them a while, so maybe this is a program?” But immediate engagement is the key.

For you Megan, yeah, they enrolled in a free course, send them an email from ActiveCampaign with their login credentials and a link to the dashboard and now know the chances that they’re going to go check their email for that email [00:17:30] and click the link is going to be very, very high, which is going to get you started off on the right foot, yep, great question Megan, great question.

Kay, I’m holding the client back from blasting, great. They have some bad habits that got them into the deliverability. Yeah, yeah, Kay, are there saving grace. Without you, they may have even gotten red listed or blacklisted. I say that, [00:18:00] I’m not bashing anybody, but just being transparent, in the spirit of transparency, in my early years as a marketer I would do exactly what I’m telling you all to do. When a platform wasn’t working I would be like, “Ah, let’s go to another platform,” and I would import this list and I would try to send from another list, not realizing the problem [00:18:30] was always me and the list.

I went to a specific platform and I got banned within a week. It took me one week. These people locked my account and even when I attempted to pay them money, they wouldn’t give me money. When that happened I was like, “Am I that bad? Is what I’m doing that terrible that you won’t even take my money? I thought anybody would take my money?” That was my first realization that you know what, [00:19:00] there’s more to this email thing than just sending email to a list. Even though the list was clean, I hadn’t bought the list. It’s just I was just trying to … I don’t know what I was trying to do actually back then, but I was using the same list on multiple platforms, trying to send emails.

Yeah, it hurt, so that’s what I’m speaking from. I’m speaking from experience. I’ve been banned from actually a lot. I have. I’ve been banned from more than one, okay everybody? I said it. [00:19:30] All right, it’s off my chest. I have and this is why now I don’t think I would ever be banned because I’ve made those mistakes and I know exactly what the platforms are looking for and when I started working here, at ActiveCampaign, it was just confirmation of what I found to be true in my testing. That yes, we are looking at immediate engagement, the level of engagement going forward and all of that is predicated on your messaging, the accuracy of your messaging [00:20:00] to your audience to determine deliverability.

I’ve said I was also thinking about importing business cards info into ActiveCampaign. Yeah, so this is a good one, Ob. It could be twofold, right? If I’m importing a business contact into ActiveCampaign, maybe I just want them in there to use the CRM, so I want to add notes to their account, maybe I want to make an occasional phone call, set up some meetings, [00:20:30] things of that nature. You’re perfectly fine.

But if I would just always, everybody, I tell you time and time again in of the fatal mistake I see business owners make is they’ll get a business card and then they’ll add people. They’ll add those business cards to an email list. The fastest way to spam. The fastest way to terrible deliverability is to scan somebody’s email from their business card and start sending them [00:21:00] ongoing email, the fastest way. I mean there are faster. I should say the fastest, and extremely fast way to go into spam.

I would never in my life email at anybody that I’ve met personally and engage personally and have their business card. I’ll never email them from an email marketing platform. I would put them in there, definitely. I would definitely put them in there if I wanted, like I said, if I wanted to use a CRM I would not, but I would wait for them to opt- [00:21:30] in or wait for them to explicitly tell me.

Now if they explicitly say, “Chris, I heard you have a newsletter. How do I get on it? Here’s my business card. Can you add me?” and I will. You know what? Here’s the catch to that. I’ve done that in the past and guess what? Since they didn’t go and fill out the form or take the action themselves, the email where it’s just like, “Hey, you’ve got access, click here to get started,” it just sits. It just sits in their inbox, even though they asked me [00:22:00] to add them. It’s something about them taking the action that elicits the engagement process and that’s essentially what you want. Yeah, importing from a business card, I would definitely say do it, just manage those contacts within the CRM realm.

If that contact on their own strength goes to your website and puts in their information and whatnot now that changes the game. [00:22:30] They have now enabled them to be sent email. Then that the system has been abused, so now it’s all about building a reputation from the ground up. Yep, Ob, you’re absolutely correct, yep.

Kay says, “How do you check if a sender’s email is blacklisted?” You mean if your email address is blacklisted, if Gmail has blacklisted your email address? Okay, [00:23:00] if Gmail … I’m not sure? There’s a couple links out there, there’s a couple websites that do it. You just put in your email address and then it provides, many carriers beyond Gmail. I don’t know it off the top of my head though, Kay. I’ll ask around. If you find it, let me know. We’ll just race to the answer. If I find it, I’ll shoot you an email afterwards but yeah, yep.

[00:23:30] I will agree. That is tweetable, Ob. I will agree. Ob says, “Immediate engagement is the king of delivery.” It really is. It really is and he says, “Rather than adding business cards data into a list, maybe I should use the ACIOS app?” Absolutely. “Plus them taking action starts their engagement.” Yes, it does.

Yeah and in fact, Ob, I’m so glad you asked this question because this would this is attempt or [00:24:00] I would say this qualifies for the need of another list. I will use a separate list for leads that are coming in through a business card or something like that that you want to exist in your database, like I said to use a CRM track on it and everything else but not necessarily mail them.

All right, Kay, thank you so much for that question and I’m going right down the line here. [00:24:30] Luis, I have your question. I didn’t read it beforehand, Luis, so I’m just going to paste it in here and we’ll go from there, let me paste and max, all right. Luis, let me bold your name here. All right, I am doing well, thank you. Thank you for asking.

“I am working on an email open notification.” Yep, “and still having some … I originally created an automation that would notify [00:25:00] if an email was opened. Then I noticed is that as soon as I attached the automation I would get a notification, even before I opened the test email. I do get email opened notifications where there was a 6 hour difference of the time I sent the email to the time I was notified it was opened. I’m not confident in this automation. Can we check to ensure this will work correctly?

Yeah, let me see what you have here. In the email, [00:25:30] it’s kind of small. Let me see? When a contact reads any personal email …” You have to start trigger as contact reads any personal email and has opened any campaign. All right, okay and then you have a segment has opened any campaign or email. All right, so let me see if I can put this up. Let me grab it here because I want everybody to be able to see this.

[00:26:00] All right, I should be able to show you all this now. All right, it’s a little small, but there we go. The start trigger here … Let me, okay. The start trigger is when a contact reads any personal email or has opened any email. [00:26:30] So whether they have sent the email … That we show you the difference real quick. A personal email is an email sent from the contact record. If I’m looking at their record and I hit “send email” this is a personal email. So Luis is saying whenever they open one of these emails or any other email, so essentially any email.

Now with this, additional segment [00:27:00] has opened any campaign or email. You don’t need this. This is redundant because you already have “opened any campaign.” Now what you are essentially … This is almost like a catch, so you’re going to say … Oh, oh, no, no, no. I see what you’re saying. You selected “has opened any personal email” and then selected this. Here’s what you did. I get it. I get it. This is what you did, yeah that was a nice dolphin.

[00:27:30] You did this, Luis. Just make sure I got you. See, opens and clicks an email and he selected a personal email. Multiple times and then he went to segment and said “Actions has opened any campaign.” Those are the two steps you’ve taken and this is… Here we go. [00:28:00] Hey, did you see that everybody? I think that was new. They tell me to add a name. I like surprises. “Please open it in email.” That was a good one because you always forget to add the name.

With that being said, now I have the trigger to match yours, great. Whenever any email is open and this is going to run a couple times. You had it set to [00:28:30] multiple times. Whenever this happens we’re going to send a notification and what you’re saying is, “As soon as I attach the automation I will get a notification even before I open it.”

Yeah, well, the trick here is that you’re looking for any email ever, so I’m actually … This will be a tough one because you would get so many [00:29:00] emails because these would include automation emails, they would include your campaign email. You could potentially be getting notifications like every minute, so I would imagine there’s probably some polling going on behind the scenes to prevent that, which may be the cause of the delay you’re seeing. I’m not sure, but you’re essentially getting a notification any time in any email is ever opened in the account, [00:29:30] which I would recommend getting a bit more granular with this one, hold on.

“I am not using a list or campaign at this time, just sending personal email.” Yeah, I would definitely uncheck this if you’re only using personal emails. I would uncheck this and just have the start trigger, that’s the first thing I would definitely do, take that off, then hit save and then it will say this, ” [00:30:00] Contact reads any personal email,” because that’s essentially the case that we are looking for. You’re only sending personal email, so we don’t care about campaigns or automation emails, all right? So when they read this email, you’re going to get the notification now.

“What I noticed is as soon as I attached automation, I would get a notification, even before I opened the test email.” That one I would recommend putting a support ticket in. They’ll have more visibility into the timing of things, but [00:30:30] if there’s a six hour difference on the time it was sent and it was triggered as open, again that’s more of a support thing. But I will tell you this, it does seem to be configured correctly if you remove that check mark for “any campaign.” Keep it to personal and then also remember that when … Ah, I lost my train of thought, hold on. “I want to say as soon as I get an email …”

Oh, oh, a couple factors [00:31:00] that go into an email being triggered as open is the client that they’re viewing the email in. Some clients block images by default, so if they don’t have images enabled, it will not trigger as an open and this is not ActiveCampaign specific. This is for all email marketing platforms. You have to have images loading on the client end for an email open to be registered. That’s why I personally [00:31:30] rarely go off of “contact has opened an email” as a parameter because it’s very hard to get that registered.

I like to use a link click more because a link click is going to register almost every time. I’ve seen a few times where they’ve got … What do you call that? A firewall, the client has a firewall on link click so it blocks it, but that’s very rare. When I was working for Lockheed Martin, the government, we had extremely [00:32:00] hard firewalls. So Luis, if you were sending me an email at Lockheed Martin and I opened it up and when I was there, it would not register as open because for one, the images don’t load by default and two, there’s all kind of encryption firewalls.

So depending on the client’s email provider and where they’re viewing it, it may not ever trigger as open, even though they’ve opened it. With things like this, I like to [00:32:30] talk big picture, Luis and really get down to what are we trying to identify and what are we trying to do? What are we using with this opens information? It’s going to send us a notification and then what? What does that notification equip us to be able to do more efficiently?

Then when we start looking at it full story, we can start identifying, okay since this is not as reliable of a [00:33:00] metric opens, looking at the full scale maybe there are some other things we can do to mitigate the lack of resolution or granularity until it opens an email. For the most part, I would say 70% of people view email in High Cloud, Gmail, Yahoo, Outlook or something like that and I mean, public …

Oh, if you’re targeting aerospace [00:33:30] companies there’s a good chance they’re using Microsoft Outlook and they very well may have images turned off by default and they may have some firewalls so yeah. I would definitely take that into account for aerospace companies. Yeah, cause because there’s going to be sensitive information being disseminated through their email, so yeah. [00:34:00] Okay yeah, Luis, you agree.

I’m not saying you can’t do it, right? But just know that in the aerospace industry this triggering is going to be more hit or miss that anything, not because of ActiveCampaign, but because of the firewalls and the security that they’re going to have on there and of the emails and that’s good for everybody. Thank you for asking this, Luis. That’s good for everybody to know: know your clients, know your audience. [00:34:30] Some of us, if you’re marketing to corporations, you have to take this stuff into account. You have to because there’s a great chance that your emails may not even be making it through the filter.

I know that at Lockheed Martin, sometimes somebody would email me something and I would get it eight hours later because of the encryption adjust all of the security checks that they had to run through it. Sometimes when I emailed myself, [00:35:00] when I emailed my personal email from Lockheed Martin, it would take sometimes up to a day to get out because they want to run and make sure you’re not sharing information of the company out in the actually frowned upon emailing yourself or emailing personal addresses and that was seven or years ago, more than that, that was 10 years ago. Who knows how that security technology has evolved from there?

Luis says, “I’m connecting a lot on LinkedIn to start a relationship,” great. You have to [00:35:30] know who you’re talking to and there is any … Absolutely and I think for you, not to try to be a business coach here, Luis, I’m just saying we have to look at the whole picture with automation and where you connect with people is another very key thing, right? A connection on LinkedIn I would say, especially in the aerospace, is a lot stronger than a connection on Twitter or Facebook, right? These are professionals. [00:36:00] There’s a good chance that a professional in the aerospace industry is going to be on LinkedIn and not Facebook, right? If you do make the connection on LinkedIn, it’s going to be a serious, not a playful connection, so I think you’re doing just right so good job there.

“On platforms like Gmail, you also get many opens when the contact just scrolls through their emails.” Yeah, that’s a good point. [00:36:30] Ob brings up a really good point because, yeah, Gmail will do that. I’m seeing more and more clients that offer the email preview, too, right? Now this makes everything cloudy. I get it. It makes it easier for us as a consumer of email, but it’s starting to make it really tricky as email marketers, right?

If you have the preview panel and it looks like, like on Outlook [00:37:00] how you can see all of your emails and then if you select it, you see the whole email on the right side and then these other ones will have the actual preview. I think on the iPhone if you hard press on something, it will pop up and give you a preview version of it. Now this just … Why? Why did they do it?

Like I said, as a consumer, yes, I want to get in real quick and see it, maybe save it for later. But as a marketer, it puts us one step [00:37:30] further from being able to track our engagement because a lot of times it’s not tracked as an “open” or some of these platforms just scrolling through it and seeing a preview will treat it as an “open.” It shouldn’t be because you didn’t open it, meaning you didn’t see all of my messaging and my decision in ActiveCampaign when say “opens email” is based on you reading that email, but you didn’t. I get why you didn’t because it was easy just for you to [00:38:00] take a sneak peek and go away, but now you’ve tricked me without trying to that you open and read my content and you didn’t.

Yeah, that’s just something to say. This is why at ActiveCampaign, the term that you’ll hear internally and externally more and more is “messaging.” Email is just one way, use SMS, right? Use site messages. Use direct mail, right? Use phone calls. There’s [00:38:30] many tools everybody, many tools and that’s why I’m not bashing email marketers by any means. I’m still at the core an email marketer because that’s how I got started. That’s really the foundation of everything in the digital marketing space. It’s all sourced from email marketing and just grew from there.

But email market, it’s harder and harder to rely solely on email marketing as your means of messaging. [00:39:00] It’s just hard. I think it’s a one-dimensional approach to marketing, where our industry requires a multi-dimensional approach. You need to have many forms of engagement and communication. Email only is not going to do, is not going to be able to help you achieve what you want to achieve.

I’m not knocking email marketers. There are email marketers right now that would hear that and cringe like, “Are you crazy? In my business all I do is send emails.” Good [00:39:30] for you, if you try to take that same business approach and extrapolate it across all of these small businesses, the numbers collectively are going to be on the lower end with respect to businesses who embrace multi-forms of messaging, which is why we have multiple forms of messaging in ActiveCampaign.

All right, I’ve got one more. Oh, I had one, Ronald, okay. Real quick, Ronald, “Chris, based on what you said, I’m right to say that it is better [00:40:00] to send multiple campaigns on one platform than to send multiple campaigns…” Oh my, Ronald, I have to push this. Ronald, you heard right. You said it better than I could. I am putting this up, so everybody can see what you just said.

I love this observation because this is another thing that kills your deliverability [00:40:30] is sending to the same contact on two different platforms. Just think how confusing is that as Gmail, right? I see your name and it keeps coming from multiple servers and I get where this strategy comes from. Again, where there’s actually two places … One comes from people migrating and they’re just hesitant to pull the trigger on ActiveCampaign, so they are still sending from their old platform and sending from ActiveCampaign.

[00:41:00] It’s mixed messaging on to the ESP’s part. You’ve confused them. Now they don’t know what to do the right? They want to keep your old server like, “Okay, Monk-e-Mail you’ve got good reputation here. I’m starting to see some good reputation over here, too,” but it’s the fact that your name … If I were to do that, which I would never, but I will be more prone to change the “from” name, just so I don’t confuse the ESP. but it’s something that I [00:41:30] wouldn’t do because you’re absolutely right. It’s better to just send multiple campaigns more targeted emails at one platform than to send many emails from different platforms.

Like I said, it just confuses. Technology can be confused, everybody, it can be confused and the unfortunate part about technology being confused, we’re always on the short end of it, especially when it’s marketing technology. We want to make sure that we’re doing the least [00:42:00] when it comes to confusing the technology, all right?

Yes, yes, Rachel, I see your email as well. Yours is actually the last one here, Rachel. Yes, great talk on deliverability today. I really want you all to really get what I’m saying because like I said, once I changed my ways I never, and I’m not using never loosely, but I have [00:42:30] never had deliverability issues after that, ever. I do a lot of things to just monitor engagement. That’s my bit. If it’s anything that I’m big on if I’m going to spend extra time in ActiveCampaign or extra time in my marketing, it’s going to be to properly monitor engagement because that’s everything.

If you’re running a promotion, you need to know who’s more probable to open your emails. If you’ve got the 30-60-90 day engagement [00:43:00] automation running, who am I sending to? I’m not sending to 30-60 or 90. I’m sending to people who don’t have any of those tags because these are people that have engaged with me within 30 days. I want to look at that pool. If that pool is 40 people, that’s my pool of potential buyers. I can curve my expectation right there, say, “I’ve got this promotion,” but I really only have 40 people who are engaging out of a list of 1200, right?

That’s telling. Before I run that promotion [00:43:30] through email, I need to do some nurturing or some other activities to build up my engagement or I’m not going to launch it via email. I’ll launch it, which brings me to Rachel, like a social media platform, right? You’ve got more than one way, right? Email is good, but it’s not the only way. All right, the naming convention …

Let me just put it up here. Now I did check this [00:44:00] automation, Rachel, and it seemed to be accurate on my end. I don’t know what … So here if I go and copy this and paste it in the browser, it says “Rachel age it.” It looks like this was the automation that I shared. I don’t know if … Are you saying it’s not pulling up on your end? But it definitely pulls up for [00:44:30] me, but would you mind … I will put those in the chat and as far as naming convention, I do have one, but the best rule for naming conventions is consistency based on functionality.

For instance, I have every automation here for Rachel with her name in it, right? Now, if I were running let’s say in Evergreen Campaign [00:45:00] and this Evergreen Campaign required multiple automations, well guess what I would name every automation? No matter what I named it, I would have to word “Evergreen” in there and it would be even better if I could do “Evergreen” and then specific to the event. So when I go to “search” and I type “Evergreen event name” everything associated with it comes up.

That’s what these labels are really good for. I could have easily created a label called “Rachel” [00:45:30] and then added all of my automations to that label as well. Naming and sorting are one and the same, but the key to naming conventions is to come up with the names grouping actions and events so that it’s easier to find, as well as things that make sense to you internally.

Oh, you don’t … Okay, yeah, so here’s where you put the address. You go into “automations” [00:46:00] and then because when I just typed the email here it just shows you. It will be great to be able to click the button and it just start the import from here, but when you go to “automations” you click “new automation” and right here “import automation” and this is where you paste.

Remember there’s no spaces at the end or the beginning and then when you hit “import” it will take you … See, now it wants to import [00:46:30] it. Maybe go through and set up that automation for you. Hope it didn’t do that because I’ll have two Rachel H’s. Do I? I do and I don’t know, which one is which, which is something we should not be able to have the same name automation. All right, that’s another thing.

All right, let’s keep going here because I’m … Rachel gave a really good example. I think this is right in line. I feel [00:47:00] like everybody, even though you all did not talk to each other before hand, I feel like these were all very consistent as far as the theme here. I’ll bold this because this is what you had bolded.

Rachel has 70 or so leads come from Facebook from an app called 22Social. “People click a link to access a report and a dialog box pops up …” This is all on Facebook, I’m imagining, “and asking them to confirm their email [00:47:30] address.” So they see the report on Facebook, click it, a pop-up comes up and says, “Hey, confirm your email address.” At the bottom it says, “The company name is asking to verify this information. The person confirms and then gets redirected to a landing page for our report.” What is your experience with this type of Facebook lead capture? Have others used this and do you know anything about their retention rate?

I have never used this platform. I have used many social media platforms and I will tell you this. The way to [00:48:00] win on social media is essentially what you’re doing, keep the funnel on. Get them as far as possible down the funnel on social media. What I mean is if they can go from Step A to Z without checking their email, then you’ve done a good job.

For here, you’re taking them to the report, right? That’s the destination is to get to the report, so they are able to opt-in on social media and access the report. [00:48:30] Specific to Facebook, people have ADD when it comes to Facebook, just so much going on. It’s descriptive marketing, so you need to be able to deliver quickly, so I think that’s right. I think that’s perfectly fine to do that to get them into the report.

Now I would say this. Make sure that report has links to the next step, right? So if after report there is the call to action is to sign up for a consultation or attend a demo, please have that link in the report [00:49:00] and make that report short as possible because when it comes to retention, your retention rate specific to email with social media, lead generation strategies is going to be low. It is going to be some of the lowest engagement specific to Facebook.

People on Facebook are not here to start … They’re not on Facebook to start opening your emails. If they do, it’s a bonus. You’re going to have a very short lifecycle with them. They may open your emails for two to three [00:49:30] days and then stop and that’s if they open your email at all because if they have to leave Facebook, they’re not leaving Facebook to check their email. I’ll just put it like that.

This is across the board. This is why you see a lot of ads when they do take you off of Facebook, if you pay attention, and it’s all industry-specific and it’s kind of hard to judge without knowing what people are actually doing on the back-end and what their finances can allow them to do, but yeah, a lot of times it’s taking [00:50:00] them to something that is a big step.

I see it all the time. People click on a link and it’s very rarely just an e-book if it’s a landing page. Outside of Facebook, it’s more like a webinar and if it is an e-book, when you opt-in, the thank you page on that e-book is like a registration or a sale of some sort. Is this idea of keeping people. You are really just easing their email capture as a means of putting the next step in front of them. [00:50:30] But it’s not like on your website where someone provides their email. You’re backing on them to go to the email and read and follow. They’re just two different beasts. They’re two totally different beasts.

Social media, where things are moving really fast all the time like that, you have to leverage that. You don’t work against it. We’d be working against it if we were like, “Hey, go check your email.” We are working against it now, but if I can keep them on Facebook and progressed them through the funnel, I have to be more creative. Like I said, don’t just give [00:51:00] a PDF report with no links and by links, I’m not saying write out your email. I’m saying stuff that they can push with their finger, click with their mouse and it will actually take them to a webpage because he want them to. You want them to read that report. It should be quick, short and sweet. They should click on a button that takes them to your website. That’s how you leverage social media.

As far as retention, with specific to email, I don’t think the retention rate will be high at all. I [00:51:30] don’t, but that doesn’t mean it’s not effective. You just have to make sure that your strategy is encompassing the fact that you’re banking on progressing them through on social media instead of taking them to email to do that.

The last question here, see if I can get this in three minutes. By the way, thank you everybody. Thank [00:52:00] you everybody for your participation and questions. Rachel says, “I mentioned this because of your comments about account potentially getting flagged if they have higher than a 1% – 3% unsubscribe rate in their first mailing. Since these leads came in a while ago and they’re not that many and they’re from Facebook, I’m wondering if I should email them manually from my … I will proceed with caution.

I trust your gut there, proceed [00:52:30] with caution because, especially if they’re from a while ago on Facebook, oh, they forgot about you. They don’t even recognize your name. Your name will pop up in their email and they’ll probably mark it as spam if they did open it. They’re like, “Who is Rachel?” Or the name of your company. They don’t remember any of that. The memory of Facebook is five seconds. I see you, as I’m scrolling you’re important right at that time and I scroll. Five seconds later something else is important and I forgot about you. [00:53:00] That’s just the nature of Facebook.

Manually … Okay … “Then add the AC to those who confirm or I could use a company like Male Chimp for these initial leads and then pick up with AC for our leads moving forward.” I would say… Now we’re back to Ronald’s question. I would use two different platforms. It just makes things messy, managing leads into different platforms.

What I would say is get away. You need a way to engage [00:53:30] with your leads, even beyond Facebook. Like I said, if you’re using Facebook to give away a free report, do just that. The free report can’t be everything, right? There’s a product or service at the end of this free report that you’re potentially wanting to sell, so in that free report should be a link to maybe a page describing what else is the next step and on that page they can submit their information for a consultation [00:54:00] or to go further.

Now that’s your capture point for ActiveCampaign, right? That’s your capture point. What you could do now, Rachel, is just email your report to all of these leads that you got from Facebook from your personal account, from your private email. Say, “Hey, here’s a report, just want to make sure you got it awhile ago, X, Y, Z.” Harmless essentially, just one email, don’t email them twice. Email them if they click the report. They now have a link in that report that they can click [00:54:30] and go back to your website and choose to engage further.

These are engagement events, right? You want as many engagement events in your marketing as possible for this very reason. If Facebook is the only engagement event, then, yeah, you’re behind the eight ball because you probably will run a 1% – 3% unsubscribe rate just because these leads were never going to be loyal in email anyway. I mean they’re Facebook leads, right? They’re quick hitters. You got to hit Facebook leads [00:55:00] quick.

Now if you convert them to a customer absolutely, they’ll stay around and open your emails, but Facebook marketing itself is a totally … Social media marketing, it’s a totally different monster that your website. If they are going to your website, which your report could be used to source them to get your website, you’ve got a better, you’ve got a higher probability of capturing their information in a way that they will [00:55:30] go and open emails.

That was a lot. I hope it made sense, but at the end of the day just understand that your strategy on social media has to be different than your website. They have to be because of the nature of the two. Yes, you are very welcome, Rachel, anytime. With that being said, I’ve got to take off. I actually have an 11:00 meeting. Thank you all for attending today, thank you for the questions, [00:56:00] thank you. I tried. Luis, thank you, I’ll tell you, we don’t have step on these office hours, right? We go all the way and that’s because I want you all to get it and this stuff takes time and as many variables of failure that I can eliminate, if I can do that that’s my job and I love doing this, so you are very welcome Ronald.

Thank you all for attending. The next office hours is this Friday at [00:56:30] 1:00pm. You can attend as many as you want. You are not limited to one, so I hope to see you all back on Friday with more questions and more success stories as well. Rachel, test this out, tell me what you think, put a link in your report, see how many people click that link, things of that nature. But take everything that I’m saying, put it into action, come back, let’s refine it, revise it and continue to grow together, so you are very welcome, too, thank you. [00:57:00] Yes, hopefully, I’ll see you Friday. Thank everybody, I love you who asked a question and didn’t ask. I think you all the same. You are watching a replay, thank you for watching a replay and hopefully, I’ll see you all this Friday.