circle-check-hollow4608FFE1-4420-41C5-B602-FE264E2D6F8D3E3E365B-80E8-4F6E-9288-3AF21C84374F086DDED4-C570-4A30-B5C2-0ACC4288D0B5restoresplit7B3B240D-B907-4145-8670-B2C9BE1E23A21194A048-5BA5-49C7-B176-32DBA6A5315A5990E9EA-4599-4220-A42D-68262CBA3687

Episode 60: How to Create a Results-Driven Online Course

Learn how to create and market engaging online courses that provide real value to your customers.

Listen to Episode (36:38)

Synopsis

Chris Badgett is co-founder and CEO of LifterLMS, an LMS plugin that makes it easy to create, sell, and protect engaging online courses. He joins Chris Davis on the podcast for a discussion around building results-driven courses, covering how to create courses that deliver real results for your users, how to choose an LMS that will meet your course creation needs, and how to market your online courses effectively.

To learn more from Chris Badgett, check out his podcast for course creators and membership site builders, LMScast. You can also connect with him on Twitter @chrisbadgett.

Related:

Transcript:

Chris Davis: Welcome to another episode of The ActiveCampaign Podcast. I’m your host Chris Davis, [00:00:30] and I have with me on this episode Chris Badgett from LifterLMS. He is the co-founder of LifterLMS. It is an online learning management system that integrates with WordPress. You’re in for a treat for this one because Chris has a very, very interesting background that ties directly into his approach to building out software for the first time. I’m not [00:01:00] going to spoil it. In this episode, we go into detail about his entire approach to running a business as well as what LifterLMS is and how to create a successful course. All of that in this episode, so I hope you enjoy it.

Chris, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?

Chris Badgett: I’m doing fantastic. How are you doing, Chris?

Chris Davis: I’m good, man. I’m so glad to have someone as savvy and established in [00:01:30] software as yourself with the same name, man.

Chris Badgett: Yeah, this interview is going to be easy. I will not forget your name.

Chris Davis: Right. It will be a shame. It will be a shame. But Chris, you’ve created LifterLMS, and I’m excited to jump into it, talk all about it, but first, tell us a little bit about you and how did you even get in the learning space.

Chris Badgett: I’m an unlikely software CEO. Ten years ago, [00:02:00] I was living on a glacier in Alaska.

Chris Davis: Oh, wow.

Chris Badgett: I used to manage a helicopter-supported sled dog tour business on a Juneau ice field. I was very low-tech. I lived off the grid, literally, with sled dogs and-

Chris Davis: Wow.

Chris Badgett: … 20 people. That’s why I learned leadership and building a team. I’ve always been fascinated by learning and growing as a leader, training animals, learning things myself.

Chris Davis: Wow.

Chris Badgett: My background’s in anthropology, [00:02:30] not business, but through all that, after when I had my first kid in Alaska, I decided to transition to just being have a little bit more of a stable lifestyle, not flying around in helicopters all the time. I really wanted to work from home, so I developed agency building websites and fell into the membership niche. This is back in 2008, [00:03:00] 2009. It’s a long journey, but ultimately, I ended up building a software product, LifterLMS, in the space, but I’m a committed family man, I’m an outdoors man, and I just love learning and marketing and leadership. Those are the things that make me tick.

Chris Davis: Great. It seems like leadership was your gateway into entrepreneurship, and you … Would you say you can see a consistent approach from, you said dog sledding? [00:03:30] What was it?

Chris Badgett: Correct. Yeah.

Chris Davis: From dog sledding to entrepreneurship when you first got started.

Chris Badgett: Yeah, absolutely. You have to … Leading a team of animals is like, it’s just something you’re either really into or you’re not, but that leadership skill just, for me, as a single human being, was one thing, but then later in my company, my boss who’s a Iditarod Sled Dog Racer, the big thousand- [00:04:00] mile sled dog race in Alaska, he recognized some leadership potential in me, and it was when he put me in charge of his company that I really became a manager.

Chris Davis: Wow.

Chris Badgett: I went from being a doer, an animal trainer to a leader of people to a leader of a company, and then later, starting my own company. You’re absolutely right. That’s the common thread.

Chris Davis: I love it, man. In fact, a lot of times, we see it opposite where the doer becomes the owner by default. It’s like, “Hey, [00:04:30] I’ve been doing something. Somebody told me to start a business, so I did it,” not knowing that the second you start the business, you, the founder, the owner, you need leadership skills.

Chris Badgett: Absolutely.

Chris Davis: You need-

Chris Badgett: Yeah, I think it’s-

Chris Davis: … the ability to build a team.

Chris Badgett: It’s highly underrated, the learning while working inside of another company. I definitely recommend that. I was also one of those people who I actually didn’t really realize I was an entrepreneur until my early 30s. It was just quite the journey.

Chris Davis: [00:05:00] Great. Man. So great. What was the epiphany with online learning platforms? You were building websites. You had an agency that was building out websites. What was it that was like, “Hey, wait a minute. I think there’s something missing here.”

Chris Badgett: For me, it’s a classic case of scratching my own itch. I have a background in anthropology and sustainable development. I wanted to do a project with my wife that we [00:05:30] could do from home with our newborn kids. We’re into, she’s an organic farmer, gardening and stuff like that, so I started creating these online courses, and it kind of got a little out of hand in that we, for example, we, I’m a little bit restless. We got on a plane We flew to Costa Rica. I found the number one best-selling author in permaculture, which is a type of focus [00:06:00] in this niche, and then we filmed a two-week course, digitized it, turned it into an online course. I started … I’m a course creator and a membership site builder myself, and then I started writing about the process on my blog. This is like blog post number 90, not blog post number one, and then all of a sudden, my blogs went from nobody reading it to lots of people reading it and people asking to hire me. That was-

Chris Davis: Wow.

Chris Badgett: … [00:06:30] how it evolved. I was like, “Oh, there’s … ” I experienced that discover and market demand in real time. It was like, I just, “Oh, there’s something here,” and I’m also passionate about it myself.

Chris Davis: The underlying theme there was consistency, right? The key was, like you said, it wasn’t blog post one. Wasn’t blog post 50. It was right around 90 where you started to really say, “Hey, wait a minute. Where these readers coming from?” Just being [00:07:00] consistent over time can do so much for your business. Man, that’s a great story, man. It’s encouraging. You’ve got people reaching out to you now. You had the itch yourself because you’ve been building out online membership sites and all of that. Now you’re faced with the decision to do something very foreign to you, and that’s starting a software company. That had to be overwhelming. I’m just, [00:07:30] where did you get the permission to say, like when did you give yourself the permission to say, “I’m going to do this.”

Chris Badgett: I think I might be a little unique in that way. I’m a little weird. I did not grow up in Alaska. I was born in a college town in North Carolina. My own life, I’ve kind of just gone after what’s interesting to me. That’s kind of unique, but that’s a superpower of mine.

Chris Davis: Fair enough, and of course you’re leveraging [00:08:00] all of your experience, so you’re intimated, nor do you not understand how a company looks from the inside successfully run, right?

Chris Badgett: That’s true. Also, I don’t really have a complex about being a nontechnical co-founder. I have a co-founder of the LifterLMS project, and this comes from my background in anthropology and living in lots of different countries and studying people and things. I can relate to a lot of different types [00:08:30] of people, and I later found out that standing between the business person and the engineering person, that was a talent I can do because I can bridge that gap, and that’s what-

Chris Davis: Beautiful.

Chris Badgett: That’s what made me successful in the agency, and ultimately, and allowed me to envision a product, and also, partner up with a business partner, the web developer programmer to bring the vision to life.

Chris Davis: Yeah. [00:09:00] You were able to really get your feet settled, get a sound foundation in the technical space as far as small business and web development with the agency, and then I’d imagine the co-founder, who is now the co-founder with you, was someone who was working with you in the agency, right?

Chris Badgett: Yeah. That’s correct.

Chris Davis: Yup, and then you can kind of give them the, “Hey, I was, I’m seeing this. Could we, you think we could do something and maybe build a platform, X, Y, Z,” [00:09:30] and then they were able to have the technical acumen to really figure it out for you so you didn’t get lost in books of coding and everything.

Chris Badgett: Correct. Yeah, I can’t write a single line of code and-

Chris Davis: Oh, man.

Chris Badgett: But also, I’m running an agency at the time, so the agency is bootstrapping the software so … We’re not just creating a good idea here that we’re going to take our time pitching. We’re taking this product and installing it in agency projects that we’ve already sold [00:10:00] the promise to.

Chris Davis: Oh my gosh. I love-

Chris Badgett: We’re-

Chris Davis: … it.

Chris Badgett: We’re moving fast in real time. Some of those, one of those projects in particular had like a multimillion dollar launch, and I’m like, “Yup. This is working. This is not only a good idea, but it’s working for this customer here. I bet we could go find more customers.”

Chris Davis: Aw, man. I mean, you did. You did exactly what you’re saying. You bootstrapped. You used what you had to build what you needed.

Chris Badgett: [00:10:30] Exactly.

Chris Davis: Wow. Oh, man. Chris, I could stay on your story all day, man. There’s just so many lessons in how you built this company. One of the things that I want more and more small business owners to do is model the approach of not being the doer. That is the hardest thing, especially when it comes to automation. It is so hard to move from the doer to the manager to the owner. That [00:11:00] is a very hard transition because you have to learn how to let go, and if you don’t have leadership skills, you can’t properly delegate without micromanaging, there’s trust issues. I mean, there’s just so much that goes into it, whereas if you start out knowing I need a team, right, “I need to”-

Chris Badgett: Yeah.

Chris Davis: … “go find some people that’ll help me get this thing going,” you’ll be far better off in the long run.

Chris Badgett: Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Davis: So-

Chris Badgett: Don’t be scared of team, and don’t be scared to give [00:11:30] up a percentage of the company or whatever because, I mean, just strength in numbers.

Chris Davis: Yeah, strength in numbers. We’ve got LifterLMS, it’s been validated, Chris. You have done a great job with validating it. You know that it works and there’s a need for it. Now, as time goes on, you start developing the platform. How are you going about getting users for LifterLMS in the beginning?

Chris Badgett: That’s a great question. When you were talking about being [00:12:00] an owner, in my head, I’m thinking, I don’t feel like I spend all my time marketing. I’m very busy in sales and content and stuff, but anyways. The initial customers came from a, and this is after we validated it with clients, high-end clients. We did a prelaunch, and this is with an email list of zero, basically, like a handful high-end agency clients, but only so many there, [00:12:30] but with a starting-from-scratch, we did a prelaunch. I put up a, I actually used Leadpages, even though I ran an agency and we could build custom sites, but I used a Leadpage to do the initial interest list, did a launch, got 52 customers on the very first launch. This is back in, it was either 2013 or 2014.

Then we shut it down. We didn’t leave it for sale, and I [00:13:00] just had that frontline obsession and stayed with those first 52 customers, got their feedback, what they liked, what they didn’t like, what else they need, and we kept growing from there.

But in terms of getting the initial traffic, it was a combination of just social outreach, leveraging our network. What else did we do? We do, see, this is what we do, we try everything, and then if something works, [00:13:30] we keep doing it. If it doesn’t work, we stop doing it. This is called prospecting. This is appearing on podcasts. This is creating a YouTube channel and starting to publish videos about it. This is building an affiliate program. It’s just doing everything, and over time I just developed a simple framework where all sales is, is three things: inbound, outbound, and relationships. Another way to say that is content, prospecting, and your [00:14:00] network.

Within those three buckets, there’s literally like 50 different things that you could try. I’ve tried them all. I just keep trying them all, and then when it works, I double down on in.

Chris Davis: Love it, man. I love it. Great. Great. You’ve got users … Tell everybody … I guess, yeah, let’s jump right into LifterLMS. What is LifterLMS?

Chris Badgett: LifterLMS is a learning management system plugin that makes it easy to create, [00:14:30] sell, and protect engaging online courses. It’s actually like an ecosystem of tools, so it’s got like an add-on model. The biggest thing we did for our most explosive growth was we made the core product free. When we first launched it, it was $150 plugin, and plugins are something that happens in the WordPress ecosystem, which I’m going to talk about in a little bit, but the in the early days, after that initial validation phase, we made it free, [00:15:00] made our first paid add-on for credit card payments and just totally changed the business model.

But anyways, as a course creator or a membership site builder, the first question you have to ask is, do I want to own the platform or do I want to rent space, pay monthly for an LMS? LifterLMS exist on the side where people own the platform. It’s your website. It’s on your domain name. You’re hosting. You can [00:15:30] put Lifter on there and all our add-ons, and you can put other stuff on there and extend the functionality. It’s not something you pay monthly for.
The trade-off is, if you do go with a hosted solution like Thinkific or Teachable, which are good solutions, you have a monthly platform, but you’re going to run into a limit as to flexibility, and that’s fine for a lot of people, but if you want to have a platform where anything is possible [00:16:00] and you can add events, e-commerce store, just keep bolting on stuff to your membership or your website or business, that’s where WordPress really shines, and it’s open. Any web developer designer who’s trained can come in and add custom stuff on top of it.

That’s where we live. Our focus is on, from the very first line of code, our goal is to solve the problem is the, we call [00:16:30] it the dirty little secret of membership sites that only 10% of people actually finish courses, and a lot less in a lot of cases. Every feature, every, when we attack a problem, it’s around adding things that help solve those problems of engagement.

Chris Davis: Wow. Wow. No, this is great. As you’re talking, I’m just browsing the site, and I’m seeing [00:17:00] how you have, like you said, kind of the freemium model. Try LifterLMS, just install it, and then bolt on to it what you want, what you need to make it customized and personalized for you. I’m glad that you mentioned the differences between going with a self-hosted platform and then a cloud-based to where you have more flexibility. When you control the server, when you control everything, you can really make that experience, [00:17:30] customize and personalize to that user. Not saying you can’t with the other platforms. It’s just for those who want a deeper level of control, it’s there for them. When it comes to creating courses, what would you say makes a successful course?

Chris Badgett: I can sum that up in one word: results, and course, people don’t want to buy courses just like they don’t want to buy consulting. They [00:18:00] want results. A great course dependably, reliably, and hopefully in enjoyable manner delivers the result, the relief from the pain or the delivering on the promise. It’s really as simple as that. It’s the things that make that happen when you design a course that are just critical. This comes back to what I’m talking about in terms of focusing on the problem of engagement and completion rates, but I like [00:18:30] to do it, and this actually, I’m glad you asked some of my personal stuff and earlier in the story.

When I was a young man, I went off into the wilderness to something called the National Outdoor Leadership School where I learned some things about navigating in the wilderness, surviving, and leading teams and that kind of stuff in the wilderness setting. When I’m thinking about learning, and some of my biggest growth and development happened in the woods there in remote parts of Canada [00:19:00] and North America, and I think about that learning experience, and then I try to translate that to the digital world.

If you look at Lifter as an example, it’s not just about the content. The content by itself does not guarantee results, but if you go into the offline world, and I encourage anybody who’s listening to this right now, to think about if you’re old enough to go pre-Internet or just at some point when you weren’t [00:19:30] learning through technology, what variables were present. There’s three that I find very important. One of them is the content, like the message or the curriculum and whatever you want to call it. It is important. I’m not discounting it.

The second is coaching. There’s often a mentor relationship or some kind of a feedback loop there. Then another one is community. Oftentimes, we’re learning in groups [00:20:00] when things are happening. You’re learning from your peers, your senior peers react, and all those variables serve different purposes, but in my experience, when I look at courses and memberships that really work, that really find success in the marketplace, it usually includes a collection of those variables. It includes some personalized coaching, and it includes some community, which may be in person, it might include [00:20:30] a live event, even if it’s only once a year. It might include little mastermind groups that people get into.

It’s all, I call it the stack. It’s when you design it, don’t just think about the curriculum and the content, but what is the stack? How do you get community in there? How do you get coaching in there? How do you get people out from behind the laptop taking action with the content that you just gave them, not just receiving information but going into action [00:21:00] out into the real world and getting results, ideally, as early as possible.

Chris Davis: Yeah. Yeah. It’s about the entire experience, like not getting singularly focused on one thing. The content, like you mention, is important, but there’s more to it to create that learning experience. I know for us internally when we’re creating content, we found that the more light [00:21:30] you can make the content, like if it’s a very technical content, sprinkling in gifs of funny characters or having call-outs that break that serious technical to, “Oh, that’s kind of fun,” really encourage completion and also reviews. The employers will be like, “That one was so great,” and it’s like, “Yeah, you just learned about one of the most technical features [00:22:00] of the platform, but was it that fun?” You’re right, nobody really wants to buy a course. They want the information, but the consumption of the information they want to be enjoyable and not feel like a task.

Chris Badgett: Yeah, that gamification, like making it fun and personalize, is very important, having a sense of accomplishment, like we have achievement badges and certificates and things of that nature too, it’s very important. If you, just like your example [00:22:30] with the funny gifs, again, if we go into the offline world, and if I say to you and everybody listening, “Just picture from your childhood that crazy science, history or math teacher, English teacher that really got through to you, they were probably being unique and quirky for, but they figured out a way to gamify the experience and make a connection with you. We’re just trying to figure out how to do that in the online space.”

Chris Davis: Yeah, which is great, and it’s a trend that [00:23:00] we’re going to see continue to go up and up as more and more people value that education experience. Now, you also use ActiveCampaign in your company, right?

Chris Badgett: Absolutely. We switched to ActiveCampaign very early on in the Lifter project and absolutely love it. It’s the backbone of what we do. I feel like I’m finally getting my, I finally understand pretty much everything it does. [00:23:30] I absolutely love it.

Chris Davis: It’s a journey. I’m just going to play detective here. I’d imagine you can go to the website. I’m sure you’ve got web tracking to see what pages people are visiting, but you also have your 30-day demo. I’d imagine you’re doing some marketing for people who sign up for that 30-day demo to convert them to full users.

Chris Badgett: 100%. Yeah, it’s … Basically, the way I designed our funnel with ActiveCampaign, [00:24:00] and this could work for any software company. If you’re a software company listening, especially if you have a freemium model, this is, it’s really pretty simple. I’ve actually burned our funnel to the ground twice and rebuilt it, so what I’m telling is after learning the hard way and doing it too overcomplicated and then re-simplifying and adding things or whatever, but for us, we just three lists. We call them prospects, users, which is the free users, and then customer.

[00:24:30] Within that, there’s different types of prospects, there’s different types of users. We have a collection of products and bundles of products. There’s these major funnels, and then within the various lead magnets at the top of the funnel, which we probably have like 20 of, and depending upon what they get, whether it’s that 30-day demo, that one-dollar paid trial on the temporary website that I think you mentioned, there’s [00:25:00] some specific onboarding emails that go out related to that.

If somebody buys our done-for-you service, that’s, does some specific onboarding emails in the customer list and notifies the account manage for that.

Chris Davis: Nice.

Chris Badgett: There’s all kinds of stuff happening, and a lot of this stuff is actually architected to … If somebody takes the slow road and eventually buys the biggest [00:25:30] thing, it takes, it would probably take year to get through the entire funnel.

Chris Davis: That’s great. You know what, Chris? I was just teaching somewhere. I can’t remember where it was, but I was talking to this company, and they didn’t, all they had was the slow road, and their road was the slowest. It’s just like, whoa, you have … Oh, it was an organization I was working with. I was like, “Hey, listen. You guys have [00:26:00] no way to identify the people earlier who are ready to go.”

Chris Badgett: Yeah. Yeah. I learned that concept, they call it the sidewalk, the slow lane, and the fast lane. If I see somebody come through and purchase our highest-dollar thing, and they’re not even in the funnel, I just see one tag or whatever, I try to figure out what happened there, whereas I just saw somebody today who’s like, “I’ve been following you since 2014. I think I’m ready to [00:26:30] buy. Can I jump on a call with you?” It’s important to realize that there are all kinds of different speeds out there.

Chris Davis: Yeah, and in an effective funnel, you’ll see those. You’ll see the people who have one tag and no history. You’re like, “Whoa, this is a straight-out buy,” so you know that they’ve either been engaging with your content, maybe under a different email address, or somebody referred highly your platform [00:27:00] to them to the point where they just go and check out.

Chris Badgett: Absolutely. You bring up a really good point. I’m not just trying to convert emails into customer. I’m also using ActiveCampaign as a CRM where I’m taking the opportunity whenever possible, whether they attended one of my webinars about a specific topic, to apply a tag. When I go back, and I put my market research hat on, and I want to look like, “Oh, how did that happen?” [00:27:30] I open up their contact in ActiveCampaign. I can see the lead magnets. I can see the webinars attended. I can see the timeline that this took, and it gives me a lot of information. It’s not just about conversion. It’s about market research and just intel into the individuals you have following you.

Chris Davis: Right, which is the other part of a funnel is the data extraction. Oftentimes people talk about funnels, and it’s all about sales and money, and it’s great because they’re great for that, [00:28:00] but in order to make those sales more efficiently, in order to make more and more and scale more, it’s about taking the information that your funnel has gathered for you and analyzing-

Chris Badgett: Absolutely.

Chris Davis: … and saying, “Where are my efforts best spent for the biggest return?”

Chris Badgett: The other, I love this quote. This is from one of my customers who had a course in the sales niche, but he said, “Your customers are not in the witness protection [00:28:30] program.” We also use it to develop our customers, make sure they have the resources they need, the onboarding, support they get, and if they want to become super fans and become Evangelists or affiliates or leave a testimonial or whatever, we’re also using ActiveCampaign for that. It’s not about just getting the money.

Chris Davis: Great. I love it, and I love the simplicity. Chris, when you said I just have three list, my heart rejoiced because you [00:29:00] have the type of business that without really planning and thinking things through before you jump into that, you could’ve easily had over 30 lists.

Chris Badgett: I did, but that’s why ActiveCampaign is so awesome because I had that moment where I, I forget the number I crossed in terms of the active subscribers, and I got an account manager at ActiveCampaign, and I’m a learner, so when the ActiveCampaign account manager asked me to [00:29:30] get on a call, I’m like, “Heck, yeah, I’m getting on a call, and I’m bringing somebody from my team.” The first thing she said is, “You have too many lists.” I was like, “Tell me more.” I asked her for, if she had any sample ways that she does tags because I know we have way too many tags too, and they’re not clearly organized. It was through quality account management from ActiveCampaign, and this is after a decade of being obsessed and learning about marketing that I finally am feeling [00:30:00] pretty good about my funnel-

Chris Davis: Nice.

Chris Badgett: … but it was that quality account management from ActiveCampaign, which is just the mirror of what I’m already saying where you guys at ActiveCampaign are taking care of me even after the sale is made.

Chris Davis: Yup. Yup. Great. Great, Chris. Aw, man. So much good stuff in here. Tell me, what you can share, what do you have planned next for LifterLMS?

Chris Badgett: Next for LifterLMS is just [00:30:30] a complete division that has already been there. What I mean by that is we’re focused on helping people get results. We’re designing some tools in the software that are not just about getting information and getting competency and passing quizzes and gamification everything, but we’re adding some tools, and this does not exist in the space. I’m actually attempting to create a new category, not for the sake of creating a new category, but just, it doesn’t exist, so [00:31:00] we’re going to build it, about mapping, learning to reality. If you have a course that promises X result, we’ve found a way to make that happen in such a way that the student can see the progress, the teacher can see what’s happening, and also, the public from a marketing perspective-

Chris Davis: Oh.

Chris Badgett: … will be able to look into those metrics as well-

Chris Davis: Wow.

Chris Badgett: … and that’s what I’m most excited about. That’s [00:31:30] what’s coming in the next couple of months.

Chris Davis: Yeah, that’s great. The visibility into the learning experience is so valuable.

Chris Badgett: Yeah, and it just comes back to, I mean, this goes in the marketing and sales psychology or just human psychology really, what the prospect is asking when they’re looking at your website. It’s not about the lead magnet. It’s not about the course. It’s not about the products. They want the result, and they’re asking in their mind, will it work for me? That’s the one question [00:32:00] that I’m trying to give education entrepreneurs all around the world the ability to answer for their customers.

Chris Davis: Yeah, that’s good, will it work for me. Then once they know that it can and it will, then making the path to getting it done has clear and easy as possible for them to achieve.

Chris Badgett: Absolutely. In your words, Chris, you called it a learning experience, and that’s perfect because we’re not just designing premium content. It’s really [00:32:30] the learning experience and service to a result. That’s the goal.

Chris Davis: Yup. Yup. Great. Well, Chris, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Where can people find out more about LifterLMS?

Chris Badgett: You can find me at lifterlms.com, and also, I’m @ChrisBadgett on Twitter. I also have a podcast for course creators and membership site builders called LMSCast. We’ve got almost 200 episodes over there. As you can tell, I’m really into this topic. But [00:33:00] yeah, that’s how to find me on the web.

Chris Davis: Great. Well, I’ll post all of those links at the bottom like we do, standard, right below the podcast so you don’t have to worry about if you didn’t capture those. You’ll be able to just click them and go to all of the resources Chris has named.
Chris, thank you, thank you, thank you, not just for your software, but for you, man, bringing a unique approach to creating software, the right way that really focuses on the learning experience.

Chris Badgett: [00:33:30] Thanks, Chris.

Chris Davis: Thank you so much for listening to the episode. I told you you were in for a treat. I really enjoyed interviewing Chris more so the first half more than the second, believe it or not, as much as I love tools, technology, and how to integrate with ActiveCampaign. I can never ever, I never grow tired of hearing how important all of the other aspects are in business. You heard from Chris, leadership, [00:34:00] being able to build a team to where it doesn’t revolve on you doing are all formulas to his success. You see it. You see great software that can now be validated internally through bootstrapping and provided to the public in a means to give them immediate value so that they can continue to use and grow their business.

I am so thankful for entrepreneurs like Chris that are willing to share their story and [00:34:30] talk about some of those intangibles, and of course, it goes without saying but needs to be repeated over and over and over again is the simplistic approach to ActiveCampaign is the successful approach. You heard it. He started out with a whole lot of list all over the place, and he ended up with three, and that came at the aide of talking to someone on our team, so that same mobility you have as [00:35:00] well.

If you would like to call somebody here at ActiveCampaign and talk to them about your account, how it’s set up, you know there’s a better way to do it, or maybe you’re just curious if you can optimize more out of it, we have that. They’re called one-on-ones, and someone from our success team is ready and willing to talk to you in the same manner they did with Chris. You can sign up for a one-on-one at activecampaign.com/training.

If you’re new to the podcast, can I ask a favor? Just really quick, if you could just hit the subscribe [00:35:30] button wherever you’re at. If you’re on the website, there’s buttons that show we’re in Google Play, Stitcher Radio, iTunes, SoundCloud. Hit one of those buttons and subscribe so that you don’t miss the next episode. Please do so. While you’re at it … Okay, I know I asked you one thing, but I could just have an upsell, if you could leave us a five-star rating in whatever platform you’re listening to us on, it will be great. If you’re in iTunes, leave it on iTunes, Google Play, leave it in Google Play, and a review. A [00:36:00] review will be … I know I’m at … Okay. Let me just stop. If you could subscribe and leave a five-star rating, be gratefully appreciated, and if you’re just feeling that type of way, leave us a review as well. If you need, if you want a more self-guided approach to learning the application, we have all of those resources available in our Education Center at activecampaign.com/learn.

This is The ActiveCampaign Podcast, the small business podcast to help you scale [00:36:30] and propel your business with automation. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Follow & Subscribe