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Episode 55: Managing Social Media with Jessie Deschane

ActiveCampaign's own social media and community manager provides her take on social media management for businesses and brands.

Listen to Episode (34:31)

Synopsis

Jessie Deschane, social media and community manager at ActiveCampaign, joins the podcast to talk social media platforms, community engagement, and how she approaches some of the greatest challenges faced by social media managers.

In this episode, Jessie shares her advice for getting your brand or business started on social media, and provides insight into how you can more effectively engage with a company or brand on social media.

Find us on the following social media platforms (and say hello to Jessie!):

Transcript

Chris Davis: Welcome to the ActiveCampaign podcast. I’m your host Chris Davis and this episode [00:00:30] I have Jessie Deschane. She is our social media and community manager and I brought her on today to talk about or to detail all that’s involved when it comes to managing social media. Lot of people think that it’s the dream job especially if you like social media in terms of oh you’re on Facebook and all you have to do is post pictures and this, this and that all day. And in my time of knowing Jessie and looking over her shoulder and working with her, it’s a lot more [00:01:00] involved than that. So I brought her on to talk about all that she’s doing here in ActiveCampaign to give you all an insight on what it looks like now and what it could potentially look like for you and your business, your SAS company or you as a social media manager. So I hope you enjoy the episode.
Jessie, welcome to the podcast. Glad to have you on. How are you doing?

Jessie Deschane: I’m good. Thanks for having me.

Chris Davis: You know Jessie, this episode, I’ve stopped ranking [00:01:30] the episodes because it’s like every time I say this is going to be really good one, then I record another one and I’m like, this is going to be a really good one. But this is going to be very important because I feel like if you’re just getting started in social media, you want to do social media as a service or you’re interested in working for a startup or you own a startup and you’re looking for a social media manager, I know since you’ve been here I’ve learned [00:02:00] so much that I would not have initially thought goes into managing social media besides posting. I was like, oh yeah, great. Now Jessie’s so lucky, all she has to do is post.

Jessie Deschane: Yeah, she’s on Facebook all day. This is fun.

Chris Davis: But that’s not the case. We’ll dive into that but first Jessie, tell us a little bit about your background and how you got started in the social media space.

Jessie Deschane: Sure. Let’s see. I went to a liberal [00:02:30] arts college so I didn’t actually have any classes or anything on social media which is interesting. And then I moved onto an ad agency right out of college and basically I was in account management, I worked with tons of different clients and my company decided they wanted to start offering social media services to our clients. They’re like, oh great, she’s young, she’s an account coordinator, she likes Twitter, we’ll make her do social media. [00:03:00] That’s how I was just thrown into it. I had been doing, writing a blog and I had been using social media for my own stuff but that was how I started with it professionally and then all of my careers after that just were centered around social media in some way and I’ve done it on the side. I feel like it’s my whole life.

Chris Davis: That’s very interesting. I think that that’s probably the most common thing that I’ve seen [00:03:30] when you sit down and ask somebody, you say, “Hey, how did you get started?” You’ve always been thrown in or you’ve been put in a position where the person who was right for the job either left or didn’t know what they were doing so you had to do it. Very interesting. So all right, okay, so quick question, if you had to rank social media platforms, what would you say is your most favorite.

Jessie Deschane: Personally my most favorite is Instagram.

Chris Davis: Instagram.

Jessie Deschane: I love Instagram. I think you [00:04:00] can do so much with it. I’ve met wonderful people in my life on Instagram. It’s just a really cool way to connect with people in a different way and then yeah, I’m on all of them but Instagram is probably the one I’m on the most personally.

Chris Davis: Okay. And everybody listening if you ever wanted to tell, I wonder when Jessie started here at ActiveCampaign? If you look at our Instagram [00:04:30] account, there is one point where we had what was it? Two posts a year or something like that.

Jessie Deschane: There hadn’t been one for I think two years when I started. We’re not even putting a ton of our focus in Instagram quite yet. It’s kind of just been for promoting our podcast and any internal stuff we can but it’s still, yeah, there wasn’t any posts going up at all.

Chris Davis: You see the Jessie effect live if you go visit our Instagram page. But most [00:05:00] of the time Jessie has spent on Facebook. For those of you that don’t know, we do have a Facebook community for our users. You can find, it’s Facebook.com/activecampaign community. We’ll get the link but when you go to the page, you request to join and what do you need?

Jessie Deschane: You have to give me your URL. Your ActiveCampaign URL.

Chris Davis: So the only requirement is that you are [00:05:30] an ActiveCampaign user from a free trial to paid account. And that’s really what I wanted to talk about today. Managing Facebook, well social media in general, is extremely interesting and give people just a bit of insight to what an average day in the life of Jessie when she gets to ActiveCampaign, opens her computer all the way to when she closes it.

Jessie Deschane: I purposely [00:06:00] do not open my computer or my phone, anything, til I get to work because I will just be on social way too much. Once I get here I check in on Sprout Social which is my social media management tool that I use and that follows our Facebook page, our Twitter, our Instagram and our LinkedIn so everything that we have gotten overnight comment wise, share wise, populates into an inbox there. So it’s [00:06:30] really helpful for me not to have to go to each platform. And then from there I go into our Facebook group which is where I spend, you were just saying, I spend almost my entire day in the Facebook group. I have it open all day. I am approving new members, I look everyone up to make sure you are an active user and then like I said, approving everyone. I’m approving posts. I’m making sure that the conversation that’s happening is being beneficial and collaborative to everyone [00:07:00] within the group.

Chris Davis: You know what I remember when we first started the Facebook group there were quite a few people that were like, why can’t we just join? Why do you have to wait? And why do we have to be approved? But I think it’s good to point out one of the reasons we want to approve the accounts is to ensure you’re an ActiveCampaign user. It’s funny Jessie because I started to look at other groups in how they were structured and you hit join and then you’re faced with a questionnaire. And I was [00:07:30] like, hold on, this is becoming standard here. Why is everybody getting bent out of shape? But you have the process that you take when someone joins the group, step one is to check that of course that they have a URL that’s active. And then step two, you check their support ticket. Or you check our support at that point.

Jessie Deschane: I do. I go in and see if there are any active support tickets open. [00:08:00] The reason I do that is because people do tend to use social media as a way to talk about any issues they’re having and sometimes people don’t do it very nicely. I want to make sure that if someone has a support ticket open that’s just a general question, I’m not worried about that. But if they’re an angry customer and maybe it’s something that support really needs to work with them one on one, I will hold off on approving that person for a little bit time until I notice that [00:08:30] their ticket is resolved. I just want to make sure that the group continues to be a collaborative place and that everyone that’s within there goes in there knowing that there’s everyone from a brand new user to a power user. And you can go in there and it’s a safe place to ask any question. And that’s the feel of it that we’re trying to keep which is why we’re so protective of that.

Chris Davis: Yeah, that’s an important point. Ask any question. I’ve been part of groups where [00:09:00] you ask what’s quote unquote a novice question and then everybody jumps on you like, did you use Google? Google is your friend. Have you done this? And honestly there are a lot of times where people ask questions that they could’ve found the answer to by searching our help document.

Jessie Deschane: Sure, sure. And that’s where we will give them the links to help document. Yeah, definitely. But people don’t ask. It’s not everyone is going around, going on Google, they [00:09:30] would rather come and ask somebody’s opinion. Maybe they don’t know how to search it the best way. There are people that do everything on Facebook. They love Facebook, it’s a way that they can interact with people personally and professionally. It becomes their own Google in a way that they’re actually talking to someone.

Chris Davis: Yeah, so as the company you have to keep that in mind. When you’re hiring your social media manager or looking to get started in social [00:10:00] media you can’t dictate how people use it. You can moderate it and guide them in the right direction but it’s social media. It’s going to take a life of its own. Would you say keeping the culture in the community, like you said, collaborative, positive, would you say that’s the biggest challenge or is there another challenge?

Jessie Deschane: [00:10:30] I think when I started that was the biggest challenge just because it ended up being another support channel initially. When people would just go in and ask support questions or if they were irritated about something or whatever. And now it’s more of a place where everyone can go in, they can even ask questions about their business in general. It doesn’t have to be about ActiveCampaign. We have almost 3,000 other people that have their own business or are a part of a startup or something [00:11:00] like that and they’re able to go in and ask people what are your marketing strategies for the year? Who would you hire for a social media manager? They ask more of your baseline questions in there as well but it is more of a place if you want to get a specific ActiveCampaign question answered.

Chris Davis: To me from the outside looking in, that seems like a metric of effectiveness. If I were to say, “I wonder if my social media [00:11:30] management is working?” That would be one of the things when the questions evolve beyond just how do I do this specific thing. You’re always going to have those. But when they evolve into hey I’ve been thinking about this or this is my business, should I do this? And they’re starting to really lean on the community for guidance.

Jessie Deschane: Yes. Yeah, definitely. I love our Facebook group. I think that it’s grown so much and numbers are important obviously [00:12:00] but it’s just the way people interact in there and just I feel like everybody creates their own little communities within. You’ll see posts that somebody just asked a question about our conference coming up in June and they’re from Australia and somebody jumped on there and was like, “I’m from Australia too, we should get coffee.” So things like that it creates these connections.

Chris Davis: Yeah, I know I saw that on another post one of the, I think it [00:12:30] was Pam and Katrina. I believe it was Pam and Katrina and one of them was like, “Hey are you in Toronto?” She was like, “Yeah, I’m in Toronto.” It’s all kind of matchmaking, professional matchmaking there going on. But for the sake of users helping each other. I think we do a really good job with priding ourselves on knowing how to use application. You need that voice. [00:13:00] But when it comes from other users it just tends to have a different affect.

Jessie Deschane: Yeah, totally. Yeah, because when it’s coming from one of us of course we’re going to talk great about ActiveCampaign. They know that we love it that’s why we work here. But when it’s coming from others that are using the platform it’s really powerful.

Chris Davis: Now what would you say to a company that’s like okay, I’ve listened up to this point. I get it. I’ve started a community. You’re talking about engagement like it [00:13:30] just happens. I’ve been running this community for a while and people are not engaging. What are some of the things that you’ve seen work with getting people past, like you said, the support ticket honeymoon stage?

Jessie Deschane: An interesting thing is we stopped replying to everyone that posted in the group. What it was initially was like, oh my gosh, somebody wrote something in the group, somebody needs to respond to this and answer their question. So then of course [00:14:00] it became a support area. So what we did is we backed off a little bit, we let some other people take over these questions. We have a few power users in the group that just always going at those questions. And then the group started to grow and the questions started to change. And then we also want to proactively post in there. We’ll post about office hours that are coming up or about what we talked about in office hours. An interesting blog posts that came out, an interesting [00:14:30] podcast episode that they can listen to. We started putting out proactive content that wasn’t support based. And then yeah, just taking a little bit of a step back.

Obviously we answered people’s questions if they weren’t being answered. If we noticed after a few hours nobody was responding or if it was a specific support question where I needed to get them in contact with someone on our support or success team then we’d jump in. Yeah, it was interesting, taking a little bit of a step back [00:15:00] there actually helped other people jump into the conversation.

Chris Davis: Yeah, it’s almost like watching your community grow up. It’s like the baby when it’s first starts walking and it falls you want to go and catch it. And you’re like, you know what? Just let it be. Instead of, it’s almost like going from babysitting the community to just checking in. And just trusting. Trusting the users that they know enough and that they’re willing [00:15:30] to engage and it seems like it didn’t take much time at all.

Jessie Deschane: No, not at all.

Chris Davis: All right cool. Now we’ve talked about Instagram, we’ve talked about Facebook, what other social media platforms are we using and you managing?

Jessie Deschane: We do have Twitter. We also have LinkedIn which that’s used more for recruiting but we do put a few things about us up on there as well. We also have our forum. [00:16:00] Our ActiveCampaign forum. And then our public slack. I’m managing all of those. It depends, everybody likes their own platform. A lot of people love Twitter and that’s where they want to interact with you. A lot of people love forums or Facebook and that’s where they want to interact with you. So you have to be in a lot of places especially as you grow and have more users. But we definitely [00:16:30] see the most on our Facebook group and our forum. That’s probably where the most activity and collaboration happens.

Chris Davis: And Sprout Social, that tool brings all of them into one place.

Jessie Deschane: Sort of. They can only bring in Twitter, LinkedIn, our Facebook, so not the group. And then Instagram. It brings in those four things. I have the Facebook group up all day just managing [00:17:00] it, seeing where it’s at. If we get any notifications things like that. Same with the forum and Slack. So those four platforms that it’ll pull in. Which is still so helpful to have and then I can see if they’ve had any past conversations with us and if maybe this is someone that I can find out if they have a success manager that I can follow up with so things like that.

Chris Davis: You know what? I think sometimes social media can be deceiving [00:17:30] because it always seems like, well it’s not seems it’s reality, that people who have problems tend to talk the loudest and talk the most often. So what’s refreshing with being on the other side of the startup is knowing how many of our users truly enjoy everything that we’re doing. Do not have issues. And even when we do have issues, they’re willing to forgive, forget and [00:18:00] move on. I was just as you were talking, thinking about how it’s very difficult to judge a company by their social media presence alone. I know a lot of people do that. I’ve seen it in the group sometimes somebody say, “Hey, ActiveCampaign is down, my email didn’t go out.” And then they’ll jump in like, “Oh I was about to move to ActiveCampaign. Now let me pause.”

And it’s just like that is such a small [00:18:30] representation of our entire user base so as a manager you see it all. You see all of the praise coming in. We have our internal reporting where we’re always showing when people say great things about us so we know. We’re in the know. I can only imagine how challenging it is for you to see an errant negative comment and then turn into a storm of comments.

Jessie Deschane: Yeah, there’s [00:19:00] been times where I’ve sat at my desk and been like, oh no, what is happening? You definitely build a thick skin working in social media. You have remember that nothing is personal. These people are worried about their business and so they’re just portraying it maybe not in a way that you had hoped that they would but that’s just the way that it’s coming off. I think too, I think everyone uses social media when they have an issue. Sometimes it’s [00:19:30] easiest way to get a hold of support. I know I just reached out to a hotel support via Twitter the other day. Again, I’m very nice about it but that’s just, it’s an easy and a fast way to reach out. And I think it just happens a lot more when someone’s having an issue. Kind of like when you write a review. If you’re writing a review about a restaurant, there are very few people that will write one unless it’s really, really good or really, really bad. You have to take everything with a grain of salt.

Chris Davis: [00:20:00] You are so right. You are so right. I raise my hand, I am guilty of having an amazing experience and not going and giving that restaurant a review. It’s just so much easier. And especially if something is wrong, human nature is you want attention. And it stems back from when you’re a child you have an owie, mommy, owie. Daddy owie. You want eyes on your issue. I think [00:20:30] that though we grow from children to adults, a lot of that is humanity it’s not specific to a child. We just learn how to manage it better. When we get older. But now social media has given you a way to show hey, owie. Look everybody since I just filled out the support ticket two minutes ago and I haven’t got a reply yet, everybody look at my owie.

Jessie Deschane: Yeah, and then they think that they’ll get a faster response that way too. And a lot [00:21:00] of times all I’m going to tell you on Twitter is we’ll get back to you via your ticket as soon as we can because I can’t, we can’t do anything any faster via social. But that’s definitely.

Chris Davis: And I think that’s important for everybody listening to know before you post. I feel like there’s two types of posts. There’s a post where there’s something wrong with the platform and then there’s a post where you’re [00:21:30] trying to figure out how to do something. And if you’re posting like, “Hey I can’t log in.” Posting that into the group, I’m not sure, maybe you can have other people hit like and say, “Me too.” But you know what? Every startup that I’ve been a part of when it comes to the me too fad, like, “Hey I can’t log in in here. I can’t log in either.” It’s still less than .5% of the users.

Jessie Deschane: And I’m still going to tell all of you all to go [00:22:00] and talk to our support because we’re not going to be able to help you within the Facebook group. We do want to make sure that people know that they’re heard so that is something that I make sure that I do is we hear you and that’s why we have been so very proactive recently. In the last few months whenever anything when we’re going to have scheduled maintenance, anything like that, we push it out on social, we make sure it’s pinned to the top of our Facebook group so that everyone knows and we just want everyone to be aware [00:22:30] of what’s coming, what’s happening and know that we’re listening to them.

Chris Davis: I think that in it all you have to remember that there’s no such thing as perfect software. There’s no such thing as perfect people supporting the software. And there’s no such thing as a perfect solution to your perfect problem. You just especially in business and digital marketing a lot of stuff you’re just going to have to figure out. You may be the first one [00:23:00] to figure it out. That’s not something to get frustrated of or frustrated about or just say, “Hey, you need to do this.” It’s an opportunity. And then you can come to the group, post your findings and your success and perhaps they can be in the seat that you’re in.

Jessie Deschane: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Chris Davis: We can be talking about their success. Jessie, in closing, with all of the platforms, all of the platforms that you’re managing, in fact I hope that it’s clear to everybody [00:23:30] by now, you do more than just sit down.

Jessie Deschane: And look at Facebook.

Chris Davis: You know what? In fact, really quick before we close, let’s touch on when you do post how, Jessie, how are you keeping track of the images? That drives me crazy. It seems like every platform has a different image size, different dimension. How do you keep track of that? I know we have a design team but are you whenever [00:24:00] there’s something to post, are you requesting different sizes, different image sizes for every platform?

Jessie Deschane: Yes. For things like the podcast, our guides, things like that, definitely they’re requested. The blog is easy for the most part, it’ll pull in whatever their big hero image is and it’ll populate to whatever size it’s going to. But yeah, and then I have to manually put them in for each different one. Sprout again, my social [00:24:30] media management tool really helps me because I can do everything from there. But yeah, you gotta be careful with images. And then Instagram is its own baby too. That one’s even more finicky.

Chris Davis: There’s so many details and then certain platforms allow you to put links in, in the comments or in the post. I know Instagram you have to go to the profile.

Jessie Deschane: You have to go the file.

Chris Davis: The more we talk about it, it’s so much more [00:25:00] than just managing, you really have to know how each platform operates and then you have to be in tune with your users and which platforms they’re using the most. I would imagine outside of the Facebook community, LinkedIn would be one of the last platforms where somebody will say, “Hey, I’m having an issue.” Sending an email.

Jessie Deschane: Yeah, that’s not usually where people go.

Chris Davis: But you might catch that on Twitter. Just something easy for somebody to ActiveCampaign express their frustrations [00:25:30] and move on. It’s interesting that every platform has its own personality but even to your business it will have its own impact on it.

Jessie Deschane: If you’re just starting out too I would say find out where the bulk of your users are and just start there. You don’t need to have 17 platforms at once because you’ll get overwhelmed. Content needs to be different on each kind. Even just the way that you write the [00:26:00] post that goes with it is different. I write something different for Instagram, for Facebook, for Twitter. I love doing that but if you’re overwhelmed with it, just take one at a time. Kind of figure out where you should be first. Test it a little bit and then go from there and add stuff on.

Chris Davis: And in fact if that does overwhelm you that may be a telltale sign that you need a social media manager.

Jessie Deschane: Yeah, someone that likes doing this stuff. I get really excited about it whereas other people are like, “I don’t, why? No.”

Chris Davis: It’s overwhelming to me. [00:26:30] If I write a blog post and it’s already hard enough finding pictures for the blog post. Then I just want to go into let me share the word. You go onto Twitter or Facebook, you put your link it and then it pulls an image that sometimes is not even in the post. And you’re like, oh where’s this image coming from? Now you got to get a image for the post. You say, “Okay I got the image for the post of Facebook, that looks good. Share the same link on Twitter.” And the image is cut off. It’s like, arghhhh. If any of that frustrates you all listening [00:27:00] as it frustrates me, that is most definitely a telltale sign that you would benefit greatly from a social media manager. Jessie, in closing, if there’s one thing you could tell our listeners, our users, our future community members, one piece of insight that you could give them, when engaging socially with a company and or a brand.

Jessie Deschane: I think this goes for both sides. For someone as [00:27:30] a social media manager and then someone maybe reaching out to a company via their social media, remember that there is a human on the other side of that screen. Just remember that the way that you’re saying things, the way that you’re asking something, I want to help you. I’m here to help you. Just remember, that there’s a person reading this. There’s a person that’s going to be helping you with your issue. I’m much more excited to work with someone that is a little bit, that isn’t coming at me super [00:28:00] upset about something. Remembering that there’s a human behind it but then from my point of view as the social media manager, also remembering that about the user that’s talking to me. They may be having a bad day. They’re probably stressed out that something isn’t working the way they want it to. And it’s frustrating them. I want to be sure that my answer is helpful to them and is at least some sort of bright answer that they can look to. I want to be as positive and helpful as possible too.

Chris Davis: That’s really good. [00:28:30] We have to, I see it in the younger generation when they would, you can get teenagers sitting in a room and nobody’s talking, they’re just texting. Even if they’re texting each other. There’s an element in communicating digitally that there’s just a loss in there. That element of loss there. You may interpret an exclamation mark different than someone else. All caps may mean something different than [00:29:00] what you take it as. But at the end of the day I think the information age is not going anywhere. Social media’s here to stay. We as humans, as business owners, we have to learn how to remember humanity is what’s controlling, on the controlling end and receiving end of the technology. You do it right then it enhances. It enhances the experience but if you use it as a sounding [00:29:30] board it’s so easy to get behind your keyboard and get some courage in your fingertips and say things that you normally would not say in person to anybody.

Jessie Deschane: I doubt that they’d say it to me at the grocery store. I doubt it.

Chris Davis: It’s crazy. I love that tip, remember there are humans on both ends and we truly do. Listeners, it’s not like we say, “Jessie, send them the support link, don’t tell them anything.” [00:30:00] And then we’re high fiving each other like, “Ah, that’ll show them.” That’s not happening. In fact, the total opposite. We’re meeting, we meet every morning and we’re talking about, “Hey have you seen this question? Hey I’m trying to help this person, is there anything that we can do in the meantime? They do have a ticket open but they’ve got a launch.” You all are talks of the office. You don’t go unheard, you don’t go unseen. Whether it’s Facebook or a support ticket. We see you [00:30:30] and we truly do value expeditiously answering and solving issues. With that, Jessie, thank you for coming to the podcast room.

Jessie Deschane: I know, it’s great. I love this.

Chris Davis: This was fun. And I hope you all got a lot from what it takes to effectively manage social media and you get to hear the voice of the face that you see in the community. This [00:31:00] is Jessie everybody. She’s at your service and she’s doing a great job. I’m pretty sure everybody will agree to that statement. So thanks for coming on Jessie.

Jessie Deschane: Thank you so much.

Chris Davis: All right.

Thank you for listening to this episode of the ActiveCampaign podcast. Wasn’t Jessie nice? I’m telling you, she’s as nice in person as she sounds over this microphone. She is one of the sweetest people you will meet and she truly does enjoy using [00:31:30] social media or I should say managing social media for ActiveCampaign. And I’ve learned so much just like I said, looking over her shoulder, talking different strategies, trying different things within the community, seeing how they work and how the engagement is increasing. And I’ll say I love our Facebook community too. There are some all stars in there. I won’t get to name them, you know who you are. You are the ones that are always commenting, providing links, helping people out. That’s what the community is for [00:32:00] and I’m thankful for it. I’m excited to see how the other platforms evolve and how the engagement increases on those too. It’s so dynamic, social media. So it’s great to have someone like Jessie who can manage it all and we can see the positive impacts from it as users and employees.

If you’re just getting started or this is your first episode of the ActiveCampaign podcast that you listened to, subscribe right now. Please go. We’re in Stitcher, [00:32:30] iTunes, Google Play, SoundCloud, wherever you can listen to podcasts, the ActiveCampaign podcast is there. Please subscribe so you don’t miss the next episode. We’re launching them every week. Every Friday is a new episode. And if you are a listener and you’ve been enjoying these podcasts, don’t hesitate. Go give us a five start rating. Give us a five star rating everywhere. That helps us get the word out. You all know how these algorithms and platforms operate, the more ratings, the [00:33:00] more that we appear in search results and the more listeners.

So help us out in that vein and if you need help yourself, if you need help, we’ve already discussed you have the ActiveCampaign community. But if you need more personalized help, you want somebody to walk you through particular issue or use case or business case, you can sign up for a one on one and talk live to someone on our success team. That’s activecampaign.com/training. And if you want to take more of a self guided approach. [00:33:30] You’re like hey, back up, I can do this, just show me where the resources are and let me consume them at my rate. Activecampaign.com/learn is the education center.

And lastly I would love to help you live and in person myself on office hours. We do office hours every Tuesday at 10:00 AM and Friday at 1:00 PM. All users are welcome. Activecampaign.com/training is where you can register for the next office hours as [00:34:00] well. And you can bring your questions. I’ll bring my screen and my shared account and I’ll answer them. I’ll build out automations for you. You won’t leave with question marks over your head like you came in with. These are all resources available to you right now as you’re listening. Please take advantage. This is the ActiveCampaign podcast. The small business podcast to help you scale and propel your business with automation. I’ll see you on the next episode.

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