Scott Desgrosseilliers created Wicked Reports to help business owners transform sales and marketing data into answers and actions. In conversation with Chris Davis, Scott reveals the top metrics every business should be measuring, and what business owners can do to gain insight into the marketing and sales strategies that will best drive results for their businesses.
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Chris Davis: Welcome to the ActiveCampaign podcast. This episode, I get to talk to Scott [00:00:30] Degrosseilliers of Wicked Reports. Listen, I need of those of you are doing something, you may be multitasking. This is an episode that I need you to sit down and concentrate. Be singularly focused for the next 30 minutes or so. Please, if you’re watching, if you’re listening to this at twice the speed slow it down one, because Scott in this episode talks about so many things that are plaguing small businesses that I see people spending [00:01:00] so much money on thinking they’re finding the solution, when the solution is exactly what Scott outlines, and that’s understanding your numbers and letting your data dictate and determine your decision making.
This is an absolute must listen. After you listen to this, do me a favor, go find your business friend, your associate, your partner, your networking group and shared this specific episode with them. Have them sit down and know that their [00:01:30] business will benefit greatly by doing so. Let’s jump right into the episode. Hey Scott, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?
Scott: I’m doing great, Chris. Thanks for having me.
Chris Davis: Yes, this is really exciting. One, because I’ve been a fan from afar. And two is, we got to chat briefly before this. You got me going, so I want the audience, the listeners, to hear not just about Wicked Reports, [00:02:00] but your story, too on how you came about creating Wicked Reports and a little bit of background information on you. You’ve got an interesting background as well.
Scott: I do. My background has been data not even by study or choice, but like genetic disposition. My mother got me a Commodore 64, my mom and dad when I was 10. I wanted it for video games, [00:02:30] found out is that there was this program on databases, and I just horsed around with it. I was like 10 years old and I made my mother’s Christmas lists, and her recipes. Everything in a database, and I was like, “Databases are easy, they’re boring.”
Chris Davis: Wow.
Scott: I just immediately understood how they worked.
Chris Davis: Wow.
Scott: There’s a lot of things that I’m not that great at, you can ask my wife about that. I just immediately understood any data [00:03:00] concept as soon as I heard it. I just was lucky that way. I just always liked using data to solve puzzles. When I was 15, my dad liked to go to the horse track a lot, and I’d go with my program to try and predict the winners with math systems. That was just what I liked to do. Give me stats, or fantasy baseball. I taught all my high school baseball team how to play, so I could beat them.
Chris Davis: Oh, my goodness.
Scott: That was just like always [00:03:30] what I liked to do. I didn’t even almost realize when I was creating Wicked and I was like, “Why does it not feel like work?” I could obsess about it because it was just so fun.
Chris Davis: Yeah. Now, you have you have a formal finance background, too.
Scott: I do. I got a Bachelors in finance and I was a day trader back in ’96, ’97. People didn’t know what that meant. I’d say, “Oh, I day trade stocks.” It used to be you would have to download the stock prices with a special phone that the trading firm would send you.
Chris Davis: [00:04:00] Wow.
Scott: Then, the systems you’d have to run overnight and then print out what you thought you might want trade, and then frantically scan the prices all day. And then call on the phone to make a trade.
Chris Davis: Oh, my gosh. That sounds so intense.
Scott: It was a really tough way. It was not a good time to day trade, it was really tough. I did okay, but I wasn’t rich. I just did okay.
Chris Davis: Yeah, yeah. It makes sense, though. Somebody who mastered databases doing all kind of analytics as a child, would gravitate towards day trading.
Scott: [00:04:30] Yeah, yeah.
Chris Davis: Because of the analytic nature.
Scott: I enjoy doing the systems more than the trade. Not that the trading was bad, it was like playing poker, so it was fun. Like anything else, you do it 50, 60 hours a week, eventually you get tired of it. The systems I loved. But the trading, having to be on the phone. You’d see the price moving the way you wanted to go, but you were just desperately waiting for someone to take your order.
Chris Davis: Yeah, yeah.
Scott: Then I got into Motorola, I got a job there. This was like ’99, [00:05:00] and they hired me in to figure out, Excel was tracking what everyone did for work, and it was crashing because at the time Excel but only go 50,000 rows or something. They had 65,000 people. They had no view of what everyone was working on and what their skills were, in all of Motorola.
Chris Davis: Wow.
Scott: So they hired me in to figure it out, and I knew the data but I didn’t know the app code. My boss [00:05:30] that hired me at the time, Steve Burns, he had to go away for two weeks right when I got hired. So, luckily I got time to, I had to crash course learn how to do the programming to support the database. This was before the internet. You had these 800 page programming books that you’d have to buy for like, 80 bucks. You’d use the index to go track down what you needed. I had all these books, like The Matrix, the key guy.
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Scott: I had all these books around, just frantically coding into the night. I pulled it off, [00:06:00] and when the contract got done they said, “Hey, we like it. Do you have a passport? You’re going to China.” I flew around the world and installed it everywhere. Tracked the whole company’s employees as my first big database [inaudible 00:06:12].
Chris Davis: Wow. Geez, that’s amazing.
Scott: [inaudible 00:06:16].
Chris Davis: What was it? Did you feel like you always had a entrepreneurial bug in you? Or was creating Wicked just a, something that, I don’t want to say fell [00:06:30] into your lap because you have been practicing since childhood. But what was that transition?
Scott: Entrepreneurial, yes. Because with even a Motorola job, I wasn’t always the best. I was a great productive employee, but not always the best like, “Hey, you got to fill out this training. Go to this corporate mandated blah blah blah.” I just wouldn’t do it. I’d get my boss, just be miserable to him. We were friends, [00:07:00] but you could see the stress when he had to tell me I had to do some mandated thing that was just literally a waste of my time.
Chris Davis: Yup.
Scott: I’m not doing that. I always like being rewarded. What attracted me to day trading also was you’re rewarded for your performance, not the time you had to put in. Having to pass time or accrue time to prove your value just bugs me.
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Scott: I guess that, and controlling your own [00:07:30] fate was very appealing.
Chris Davis: Right, right. I got it. You could probably trace it to personality traits and types and all of that, and they lead to putting you in a position where an opportunity comes. When opportunity presents itself, although you didn’t realize it was an opportunity, you just said, “Hey, okay. I could do it I guess.”
Scott: Well, my first entrepreneur effort actually, I’ve done three. One [00:08:00] that did well, but I didn’t like it. It was running a contract programming firm. It was going fine, it just wasn’t that exciting to me.
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Scott: One didn’t go well, I was ahead of my curve. The meditation mind. The website’s still out there. It was subscription based meditation. That was like 2008, though.
Chris Davis: Oh, wow.
Scott: I was still new, and the tech was really tricky. I was trying to do all the roles because I thought automation would solve these problems. [00:08:30] I didn’t run it well as a business.
Chris Davis: There it is.
Scott: I didn’t run it well. I was [inaudible 00:08:35] marketing’s covered with this, I download this template on ads, I’ll just do that. I just need to blog every day, it will go viral.Everyone was like, “How am I going to go viral?” back then, and I was one of those idiots doing it. The plan is to go viral. [crosstalk 00:08:53].
Chris Davis: That is the marketing strategy.
Scott: I just made a lot of bad decisions. Super underfunded and [00:09:00] I didn’t focus on enough of the key numbers. Mine I was more worried about was consumption of the product more than … I was doing all these [JV’s 00:09:09], where you had to buy the JV offer was to combine, not to opt in and then nurture them. I just didn’t realize that was what I should do, and then I burned all these great JV’s. Not burned them, but wasted the opportunity to make a lot more money with them.
I has a failed one, and then I had one that went okay but it wasn’t my passion. This one’s kind of hit on all. But [00:09:30] the biggest thing, I always go back to Gary Halbert of the Boron Letters. It was letters he wrote from prison to his son. He said he used to teach an economics class before he got in prison for, I forget what happened to him. He gave his economics class, “Okay, we’re going to open a hamburger stand. What do you guy want?” People would say, “I want quality meat. I want good pricing. I want this or this.” He goes, “I’ll give you all those. All I want is a starving crowd.” That always stuck with me.
Chris Davis: [00:10:00] Wow.
Scott: That if you have market demand, then that makes everything a lot easier.
Chris Davis: Absolutely.
Scott: You’ve got a market demand and then you also got to have the rest of it. You got to have the skill, you got to have a great product.
Chris Davis: Yep.
Scott: With Wicked Reports there’s such a demand for people to grow using data. It’s not going away. People keep coming. The world doesn’t need prettier pie charts. They need the heart of the problem, and I think we’re getting there.
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Scott: [inaudible 00:10:28].
Chris Davis: How [00:10:30] that came to light was just you helping a friend, right?
Scott: It was. I was an Infusionsoft certified consultant, and my friend Mark [Murrell 00:10:44] runs getmainelobster.com. He was a Chase small business of the year. Grew it out of his condo to a couple million dollar business a year, selling lobsters online. You click online, buy, you pick a date in the future and they either ship live lobsters or frozen ones to you. I [00:11:00] was with him every step of the way, helping him. He was the guy that drove that thing, but I helped him a fair amount. For example, he had almost no business and he got in with Groupon super early, and then they said, “Hey, we’re going to sell you …” and then he calls me up says, “What am I going to do? Groupon … I’m not going to make any money. They want 50% off.” I go, “No ones buying from your shitty website anyway.”
Chris Davis: Yeah, yeah.
Scott: Just double the price and offer 50%. That’s what he did and it sold 70 lobsters in [00:11:30] Alabama somewhere. He was crushed, and Groupon’s like, “Oh my God, we did seven grand in Alabama. We never do that. We’re moving you up to DC.” DC came and he did thousand orders that weekend. He had a business, just like that.
Chris Davis: Wow.
Scott: Groupon goes great, then it starts to crap out as it did in a lot of reasons. Suddenly he had no other channels. He had relied on Groupon. He decides he’s going to try Facebook, calls me up and he says, “Well, so much for Facebook. It’s terrible.” [inaudible 00:12:00] [00:12:00] I was like, “Well, how did you find some random person to buy from your site that no one’s ever heard of?” He’s like, “I don’t know. I figured I try to get sales.”
Chris Davis: Just for the record, he went to Facebook to run ads to sell live lobsters.
Chris Davis: This was before Facebook ads was really big, [00:12:30] right?
Scott: It was like February 2014. January, it was his big 2014 project. I think it was maybe January 2014. He spent four grand and he goes, “Oh my God, we had 20,000 clicks.” Then he’s like, “Oh, my God, I only got one order.” I was like, “Well, are they one your list? Are you going to re-market? Blah blah blah.” Which wasn’t even that well known at the time, somewhat well known. He was like, “Well, how am I going to know they came from Facebook?” I was like, “Well, there’s going to be something.” I Googled around, couldn’t find anything. [00:13:00] I hacked together this cumbersome solution involving naming conventions of your ads, and then you put the same names in your UTM’s. Export out the cost. Then you take the query string of the link, and you pluck it out and shove it into the CRM. Export that out. Map it with Excel, but at the end of the day we were like, “Wow. We can track somebody.” He goes, “What can you tell?” I said, “Women 40 to 60 that like the Patriots [00:13:30] or the Red Sox, but don’t live in New England are worth ten to one after three months.”
He was like, “Oh, my God. How did you do that?” We had the idea that, of course I’m from New England, but everyone hates the New England teams because they’re the best. Why would you possibly like one, if you moved away, unless you were originally from here. You may be nostalgic and want lobster from Maine. That was our marketing premise that we were able [00:14:00] to test with data. You don’t live in New England, but you gave a reason. We think you used to, and let’s see if you like a New England based product because of that.
Chris Davis: Wow.
Scott: We had to name ad sets very particularly with the UTM’s, and the offer was like, I don’t know. He did his Groupon offer. 50% off coupon or something like that. They opt in to get the coupon. We tracked it all, and it would take me like four hours to get the report done, and this is something I enjoy doing, still it’s just a pain. [00:14:30] I got it done, and then Infusionsoft at the time had this mastermind webinar. My friend Michael [Edelman 00:14:35] was running it, and he said, “Hey, this is looks pretty cool. Why don’t you present it?” I said “Sure.” I presented it, and my call to action was just like, “Hey, if this seems cool here’s my personal Gmail, give me an email.” So, people were emailing me like mad. Not mad, but probably 50 emails of demand for, “Hey, I’m interested. What does it cost?” Right away. People want to buy.
Chris Davis: Wow.
Scott: No marketing, [00:15:00] no education cycle, and so I didn’t even know what to charge. I come across this guy, Alan Weiss, who does million dollar consulting book. I’ve since gotten to know him. It’s about value based pricing, because I was like, “I don’t want to charge based on the time.” Because it’d only take me four hours a week, and I know I’m not going to create any [inaudible 00:15:17]. I don’t want to gouge people, but I want to figure out [crosstalk 00:15:21].
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Scott: I followed his process and ended up getting, I was moving across country at time from Chicago to Mass. I closed, [00:15:30] I don’t know, 20 to 30 grand of pivot tables in that week of moving, with the same templated word doc two page proposal. I was like, “I think there’s a starving market here, and I really like doing this.” It’s what I like to do, solve data with puzzles. It has a market that really wants it, and no one else is doing it, so I’m going go into this. Third time I was much more strategic about deciding, hey I have a business here, not just trying to [00:16:00] rose colored glasses look at a situation I can make money. I was like, people are dying to get this info.
Chris Davis: Yes, and you know what I like-
Scott: [inaudible 00:16:09] actually, [inaudible 00:16:10] pivot tables all the way to now.
Chris Davis: Geez.
Scott: I think it was four people, maybe they fired some, I don’t know I’d have to look it up.
Chris Davis: Wow.
Scott: Half of them are still here, I think.
Chris Davis: It was a low-tech solution.
Chris Davis: But it was low-tech, high-value, and that’s the combo that I often like to see because if you try [00:16:30] to do it the other way, where it’s high-tech and low value, everybody’s doing that, right? Everybody’s got the new widget, the new sass product and they’re showing you all these bells and whistles. Then, at the end of the day you’re just like, “What does it do again?” Like, “Do I really need that?” Whereas flip for you, you’ve got low tech, which means you’re doing the processes which is a good thing. I know that’s hard for some people to internalize coming from a marketing automation company that wants you to do less. [00:17:00] You actually intertwined with the processes, is a strength, because you know exactly what the pivot table needs to do, you know the inputs, you know the time it takes. Essentially you have the specs anytime if you want to automate or build software to do it for you.
Scott: Exactly and that’s when your assumptions get realized quickly, whether you’re right or wrong. Because my tenth customer was a digital marketer who’s still with us through [crosstalk 00:17:28]-
Chris Davis: Oh, wow.
Scott: They’ve been really [00:17:30] supportive. I had this process, right? They’re all excited because I told him, “Hey, I can tell you what email made money.” Weiss is like, “All right, I’m in.” I’m like, “Hey, well you just got to put unique UTM’s on each thing.” And Molly Pittman who’s running their ads, and John [Gripshaw 00:17:47], John’s like, “Hey, Scott. We got a problem. I showed Molly the solution, she loved it, and then I told her she had to do a unique UTM. She goes, ‘We have 400 ads. I ain’t doing this.'” I’m like, “Well, what are we going to do?” He’s like, “Well, [00:18:00] I guess I’m going to have to do them or something.”
Then that created a whole ‘nother innovation where we now auto create the tracking specs for you, tracking IDs and all that. Otherwise we were going to lose anyone that had any type of volume who wants to manually create links. Manual always is bad.
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Scott: People don’t want to do it.
Chris Davis: You know another thing you said, too, that I don’t want our listeners to gloss over, because you said this word a few times. The phrase is naming conventions, [00:18:30] and I tell people all the time if you have a strong naming convention throughout everything that you’re doing, whether it’s how you’re naming your emails, how you’re naming your tags, how you’re naming your ads, so you can easily group things just by sight and name. You’re that much better off when it comes to-
Scott: Oh, preaching to the choir right now. I have a course we’re just launching next week. It’s done, and four of the things are naming conventions. [00:19:00] I was on with Mike Weiss who did it with us, he also did digital marketers courses. I was like, “Man, the naming conventions. People don’t always like to talk.” But he goes, “How important are they?” I go, “They just make your life so much easier.” He goes, “Well then, leave them in. Leave the course in.” Okay, man.
Chris Davis: Yes, they do. I love them.
Scott: I would do “W 40 to 60 likes Pats not in Bost”. That was [inaudible 00:19:22].
Chris Davis: Oh, man. I love it.
Scott: Looking at the data, you immediately know what you’re looking at. You don’t have to go do another chart or look up, or it means [00:19:30] ad set 12345, what does that mean? Or people just put “offer”.
Chris Davis: Right.
Scott: Something unique. What’s the setup? What was the angle? It’s all about, when you’re reading any name does it give you meaning that you can take action on? And if so, then that’s a good name and if not it’s not.
Chris Davis: Yep, yeah. It’s really, it goes into the scaling mentality. Those who really value naming conventions know they do [00:20:00] it because they have growth in mind. Those who don’t, they’re just singularly focused on that thing that they’re doing right now.
Chris Davis: They don’t see the big picture.
Scott: Yep. So now we tell people just name the ad sets in Facebook for [inaudible 00:20:16]. Name your ad set whatever you’re targeted and then we’ll go auto create that in the report so that you can see in the report, and you remember who the hell that was. Particularly because our number one thing value that we find people seem to [00:20:30] really get excited about is missed opportunities. You run an ad, you get a bunch of leads, not that many buy. You stop spending, but then it just took like a month or six weeks, because they have to get educated on your product. Or you sent them some bad emails and then you sent them some good emails later on down the road, and then they start buying. You’re like, “Where did I find them? I want to go find more of those people.” With a good naming convention, you’ll say, “Oh, that’s where that was.”
Chris Davis: Yes.
Scott: If you don’t have one, it’s a treasure hunt.
Chris Davis: [00:21:00] I love it. So tell me this Scott, I know you have seen probably every business type from a data perspective of having absolutely nothing in place, and knowing nothing, to really having a good idea of how their businesses is performing. What would you say, I don’t want to put a number on it like the top three, but what would you say are the top metrics every business should be measuring? Or should be able to [00:21:30] measure right now? They should be able to spit these metrics right off the top.
Scott: There’s three, there’s three actually. Lifetime value, return on investment, and time to break even. Because the ROI tells you, is this worth doing in general. You need to know ROI on everything, because otherwise you see a lot of activity, and you confuse it with benefit to your business.
Chris Davis: Yes.
Scott: “Oh, my God, I got 5000 opt ins to my contest.” Contests are normally [00:22:00] crappy. “Oh, I got five cent video views.” Did any of them ever engage with you further? Did they just click through? I’m not saying that doesn’t work, but if you don’t know if it works then you’re blind.
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Scott: Lifetime value is a big one because this map wildly differing value of different customers. Look at reports, we got some customers who pay us 50 grand in a year, another one’s going to pay us two grand. It doesn’t mean we don’t value or try and support all of them equally. Six 50 [00:22:30] grand customers go, or do I want to get a couple hundred of the two grands? Found all the 50 grand customers from one particular spot, I need to go fish in that fishing spot more. That can really affect ROI greatly, but also then in your product, you see the patterns and you want to reverse engineer the acquisition of the high value customers. Not that you don’t want to support, value, trust, the lower ones at all, but 80/20 rule, you start your day, how do I get more high value [00:23:00] people in the door? Then how do I get more medium value, and then how do I up the low value.
The high value are also usually less maintenance, not always, but often less maintenance and you more see the longer term, why they’re higher value. They may be harder to find because they’re off making all the money they have that makes them higher value.
Chris Davis: There you go, yeah.
Scott: They’re not watching every video you have on Facebook. They’re busy working.
Chris Davis: Yes. Yes.
Scott: They’re not liking every single post. [00:23:30] We find that a higher value one for us, maybe like a ten million plus business, they’re going to have a team. They got to gather the team to be on a demo, so they’re not going to be able to click and buy necessarily right away. Of course, I want them to click and buy right away, but [inaudible 00:23:44].
Chris Davis: Right.
Scott: Then, time to break even matters because that kind of piggybacks with ROI and lifetime value. You run an ad and if you normally take eight days to break even on an ad, or campaign, or ad set, what have you, and it’s only been three days [00:24:00] and it’s not break even, you can’t just throw that out. You might have to stop spending, because you’re like, “Hey, I just blew 500 bucks and that’s all I’m willing to spend. Then you need to revisit it and see, hey did it reach break even or did I reach profitability faster than normal. I guess that means I have four, because the other one is how you did related to average. That Garmin ad yesterday, I loved that, because that’s [inaudible 00:24:30] [00:24:30] email [inaudible 00:24:31]. Is that good or bad? A hundred people buying sounds good, but if your average email sells 300 then that’s actually a terrible email, you shouldn’t send it. If your average email sells 50, then obviously 100 emails is a cause for celebration. Every lead should get that email. Relative to how you do gives you a framework for how to use the data to get better.
Chris Davis: Oh, okay. Right.
Scott: Because you’re saying, “Here’s how I do normally, did I do better or worse than usual?” [00:25:00] There’s a lot of stuff you can get into there, but that’s where my focus is on.
Chris Davis: Yeah. Because in that example, the last one, because I had my screen, or my audio cut out for a second there, so I just want to recap. What I liked about that was, when you said average, I just sensed people who are listening were to, “How do I tell the industry average? How do I know what people in my industry are doing?” It’s not the industry average, it’s you. Right?
Chris Davis: [00:25:30] How are you performing to how you usually perform, right?
Scott: Yeah, it’s like that. If you get 1% better every day, I don’t know there’s some fancy phrase for it. It makes sense.
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Scott: And it’s true. Like Mark with his emails, he would send an email, then be like, “Okay, I normally … ” I think his email, well I know it was $2,107, his average email. It’s changed now, probably. When he sent an email that was his context. When he sends a broadcast to his list of [00:26:00] x 10,000 people or however many. Because otherwise you have an opinion. He sends an email, and he tries to tie lobster into everything. He tied it into once, what was it, he said he sent an email “I ran a half marathon”, that was the subject line. I thought he would send it to me as his friend. I read, and it’s like, “Oh, geez.” He tied this into lobster, so annoying. I was literally annoyed. I clicked on it, and it’s a blog post about him running the half marathon [00:26:30] and including a coupon code marathon was in the post. Now that’s not good marketing practice to really make people work to get the discount, I would think.
Chris Davis: Right. Right.
Scott: I would think that’s not. Me and my brother were like, “Oh, Mark’s going off the deep end. This is so annoying.” He actually closed nine grand which was almost 5 times his average email.
Chris Davis: Wow.
Scott: He was in [inaudible 00:26:53]. I know this because I am part of a email training course, this is in there. He had 500 clicks [00:27:00] on 80,000 sends. You’re not going to have an email guru, “Hey, I got .6% click through rate. Sign up with me, I know how to convert your list.” Whatever, dude.
Chris Davis: Yes.
Scott: The sales, he made five times his normal email. Again, my opinion as his Infusionsoft consultant and a data guy, I read the email. I have an opinion. His mother’s on his list, she replies back to every email. Loves it to death. She of course thinks they’re all great ideas. [00:27:30] Everyone’s got opinions, so [inaudible 00:27:32] will be the great arbiter of what you should keep in your funnel or not.
Chris Davis: Absolutely and most people don’t have that voice. I think that’s my biggest concern and frustration with the space as of right now, is that I see people going to Facebook groups asking for information their data should be telling them. It’s just like, no, you’re not going to get the answer. First off, if you could get the answer to solve [00:28:00] your business woes immediately from a Facebook group, I question if you have a real business. If somebody random could just give you an answer, and it was like, “That’s the key.” Now, some people can give you pointers and everything moves you closer to it, but at the end of the day this is a very formulaic approach to business. Meaning, you do something, you measure what you’ve done, you assess the measurement, [00:28:30] and you optimize.
Scott: Exactly. Exactly.
Chris Davis: Just keep going.
Scott: Our job, I find 2018 is to become a data driven playbook. What I mean by that is, we want to set up the conditions so that we can always tell you how your things are doing, and are they doing better worse than you normally do. Then you have a clear blueprint for how to keep doing the things that are working in your business and stop doing the things that aren’t. [00:29:00] We have, I think you’ve seen our testimonial page, we’ve got all these gurus that use us. A lot of them they practice what they preach. What we find is when people buy anyone’s products, or even people who buy Wicked Reports, there’s a dramatic difference in experience. It’s because sometimes strategies are going to work, not sometimes, I’d say always strategies work better or worse based on the business they’re in, the competition you might [00:29:30] have, the product you’re offering, how you’re selling it, and who you target it to. You may have a great product, but you offered it to a bunch of 16 year olds and you’re selling them delivered booze and they can’t buy it. Hopefully they can’t.
Chris Davis: Right.
Scott: Or you’re doing a Thai restaurant and you’re getting all 70 year old ladies clicking on it that don’t like spicy food like my mother. That’s what kind of got me thinking about it. I’ll ask my mom, “Hey, is that Thai place any good?” I like spicy food. [00:30:00] She’s like, “Oh, no. It’s so spicy there.”
Chris Davis: Right, yeah.
Scott: [crosstalk 00:30:04].
Chris Davis: Yeah, it’s right up my alley.
Scott: They might have a great restaurant, but this is a bad targeting. Just trying to make it as easy as possible to take data driven actions, and then tie it back to how is it in relation to how their business is, where there at in that point in their business. Is this a good thing, what happened or not.
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Scott: There can be a lot of nuance and complexity. You could just choose to interpret [00:30:30] things better or worse. If it’s data, there’s no hiding from an email that gets more sales or less sales than your average. Then you just know right there. More clicks and less clicks. Then you know, hey did someone care about that email? Well, I liked it. We love the copy, it looks beautiful and if no one clicks on it, then you know what, you should stop sending it.
Chris Davis: Yeah, because you know what? Every business should have a playbook, right? You should have a record of what has worked well and [00:31:00] what hasn’t worked well, and you should be able to go whenever it’s a new venture, new promotion, new whatever, you should be able to reflect back and say, “Hey, let’s take this from this campaign. This from this promotion. Let’s not do what we did here, and let’s see how that performs.”
Scott: Exactly. Then that’s when you get into the attribution elements which we are trying to shield people from needing to be attribution experts unless they want to be. Where in an earlier Wicked [00:31:30] Reports iteration you had to really understand our attribution, and now are making it so you don’t necessarily have to understand all of it, just enough to make you more money. Because there’s some nuances with your marketing because people react differently to your marketing based on how familiar they are with your brand. You’re trying to find new leads that are going to eventually buy, or you have old leads that you need to convert to customers. [00:32:00] People just react dramatically differently to marketing based on where they’re at with your brand. If they’re on your list, on some things they’re going to respond much better to than others. Like your initial way of getting leads might be coupons, it might work great. But then people get sick and getting coupons and they really want links to direct products based on how to cook them, in Mark’s example.
Because they’re more familiar with you. If you’re a random brand, they haven’t heard of you, you can’t get too detailed [00:32:30] or nuanced with your content necessarily. Then another market’s just the opposite. You got to go super detailed. The cold leads, and then the warm leads just need to know, “Hey, where do I buy, and what’s the discount?”
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Scott: The data will flush that out for you if you have it.
Chris Davis: You got to do it. What I appreciate about what you’re doing is you’re making it easy. You’re doing the thinking for them, right? Like you said, if you don’t want to be a master at attribution or understand the [00:33:00] analytics, you won’t be punished because you can at least understand the data in a form that you could know, where okay that’s a good thing. Oh, that’s not so good.
Scott: Exactly. I shied away from that a little. Not because I’m a shy person, but I just figured people would want to know it and make decisions for themselves, but no people are busy. They want to know enough to trust what were telling them, and furthermore they want to see it backed up. When they follow it, it works and if not then they’re going to be bent out of shape and probably stop [00:33:30] using us, so it needs to work. What we’re coming up with is a Chrome extension that actually breaks down inside of Facebook. How does this do if people were already on my email list versus if they weren’t, ROI based attribution going out into as far a time as you want. Then you don’t have to know what attribution model, what timeframe do I pick, this or that or the other thing. It’s just going to say, “Hey, if they weren’t on your list, this is how much money you’ve made. If they were, this is how much.” You can drill [00:34:00] into why and you can see which email closed them down the road, but that’s the type stuff you want to know. You don’t want to necessarily comb through a grid of numbers. Otherwise already retired and living on an island.
Chris Davis: Right. I guess I got so excited just jumping in the podcast, if you made it this far and you’re kind of like, “Hold on. How does this all work?” Wicked Reports, you pull in all of the data from all of these sources, right? The CRM, [00:34:30] your ad platform, your payment processor, all of those things. You pull the data in and analyze it in an automated fashion, correct?
Scott: Yeah. You know for us it was, we were thinking SMB e-commerce businesses or anyone selling online, they just want to know how to grow their business faster. It’s not as simple as run more ads, make more money, you know. What we found is that the world [00:35:00] didn’t need more pie charts, but the same time there was nuance behind the fact that customers don’t buy from brands they don’t know. The less known you are, the longer it takes to make a sale. How do you bridge that gap? We’ve got something that I call “people based tracking”, we’ve got patents behind it.
Chris Davis: Nice.
Scott: It connects and translates your marketing and sales data into ROI and furthermore actions. What we’re doing is creating a predictable revenue growth system, I guess I’d call it. [00:35:30] How we’re doing that, we wire into, let’s say you’re using ActiveCampaign and Shopify. We wire into your ActiveCampaign, automatically pull out email clicks and your leads, and when they were created. We’re going to do that so we know when the new lead actually happened so that we can give the proper credit to what created the lead, because every other system you log into that you’re marketing with is going to claim full credit for everything. You can’t listen to them. Then we pull out of your Shopify [00:36:00] your sales, so we know when there’s real sales and the exact amount of revenue, instead of using a pixel or requiring on anything else to happen. We know if it’s in your store, it’s a sale. If not, it’s not, and that’s that. We start with that foundation, and then we pull in your Facebook clicks and costs, and your AdWords clicks and costs, and we can track other things as well. Then we pile it all together with click tracking and attribution models and marketing intent, and all these other things, to [00:36:30] create ROI based on where someone’s at in your unique customer journey.
Which then maps to, here’s what to do for people that aren’t on your email list. Here’s what to do for people who are on your email list. Here are emails that make money. Here are ones that no one cares about. Here’s retargeting that gets clicked on, and here’s ones that don’t. Then you just do more of what works and less of what doesn’t.
Chris Davis: Wow. Amazing, amazing Scott, thank you so much, man for taking some time and walking us through this. This is been so [00:37:00] insightful, just in speaking. I know it’s just natural to you. This stuff just flows out of you, but you don’t understand how many gems were dropped, and nuggets. Just everything. There’s a fortune to be had in just understanding how to assess your business for growth, in this podcast alone. Where can people find out more about you?
Chris Davis: Wickedreports.com, there it is. As [00:37:30] mentioned, Wicked Reports does integrate with ActiveCampaign. All you listeners, all the goodness that you heard is available for you. Scott, thank you again man for taking the time out. Really enjoyed this one.
Scott: Okay, I had a blast, Chris. Thanks so much for having me.
Chris Davis: Any time.
Scott: Look forward to catching up. I’ll be in Chicago in two weeks, I look forward to catching up.
Chris Davis: Yes, yes. Looking forward to it, grab a bite to eat and talk some more nerd and analytic stuff.
Scott: Awesome, thanks.
Chris Davis: All [00:38:00] right, I’ll see you later.
Scott: See you.
Chris Davis: Thank you for listening to this episode. If you made it here that means you listened to exactly what I said in the beginning, and you took the time ,and I hope that you pulled away those nuggets, those gems. You have a bag full of treasure from Scott when he talked about the targeting. Did you see how specific he was with this targeting? Did you see the metrics that you should be using to measure your business performance? [00:38:30] Then the extra gold nugget where he said the average of how you do, not the industry, not everybody else, you. With respect to what you normally do, how is this new marketing performing? If you cannot tell those numbers, if you don’t know those numbers, if you don’t know that performance, then it is a strong case for you to reassess your business, the tools that you’re using, and how you are approaching it. One of the big takeaways for me, [00:39:00] everybody, was when he was talking about how the bigger fish are often harder to catch, right?
In that is because they’re busy, so they’re not the ones that always have time to open emails and click on links. That kind of goes against what most people know in email marketing as, they would mark those as a disengaged lead. Say, “Oh, they’re not engaged.” Even that helped me just think of engagement in a different term, in a different respect, understanding, and I should [00:39:30] say relative to the audience that you’re reaching, right? Nothing is a universal law when it comes to business. It is up to you to run your business, assess was going on, optimize to figure out that formula. What’s that playbook for success for you? Because I’m telling you, it looks different for every single business. Reporting analytics, understanding the numbers, is the only way to maintain your unique approach to business and [00:40:00] find the success that you desire.
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[00:40:30] If you need help getting started with ActiveCampaign activecampaign.com/learn is the Education Center with all of the guided content. Guides, podcasts, videos, webinars, you have it all right there. if you need a little bit more of a one-on-one support we have that at activecampaign.com/training. You can sign up for one-on-one and talk to a real live human being from our success team about your specific business needs and use case. With that [00:41:00] being said, listen, you now have a mandate everybody. Go know your numbers, all right? Go know your numbers. This is ActiveCampaign podcast, the small business podcast to help you scale and propel your business with automation. I’ll see you on the next episode.