Max van Collenburg joins the podcast to provide insight into his unique approach to marketing and lead generation. By using Facebook Messenger and a chatbot service in combination with ActiveCampaign, he’s found a simpler, more personalized way to reach his audience.
In this episode, Max mentions a video tutorial he created and posted in the ActiveCampaign Facebook community to help other marketers get started with the chatbot and Facebook Messenger approach. The video can be found here.
- How to Use Facebook Custom Audiences with ActiveCampaign
- Beyond Email: A Guide to All of Your Marketing Messaging Options
- How to Add Forms to Your Website
Chris Davis: Welcome to another episode of the ActiveCampaign podcast. I’m your host Chris Davis and today [00:00:30] I have with me, wait a minute everybody. Let me make sure I can say this right, Max van Collenburg. I think I got it right. He is a Facebook Messenger marketer and he’s going to show us, or provide insight, on exactly how you can start using chatbots to your advantage, in your business, to personalize your marketing in conjunction with the email marketing and other marketing strategies that you are already [00:01:00] doing.
So buckle up, we’re going to go over a lot of details and a lot of insight. For some of you, this may be something totally new that you’ve never heard of. That’s perfectly fine. You’re in the right place at the right time with the right people. Let’s jump right into the episode.
Max, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?
Max van Collenb: I’m good, man, yeah. Thanks for having me. Super cool.
Chris Davis: I’m glad to have you on. We’ve got a bit of a time difference, so it was good to coordinate and make sure that we had some time to talk through [00:01:30] a nice strategy. I think the strategy is really laying a foundation to where we could both agree marketing is going in the future.
Max van Collenb: Yeah, great.
Chris Davis: Before we do that, let me not get ahead of myself. Max, tell us a little bit about your background. Your formal background and your business background, however you want to go.
Max van Collenb: Yeah, so a few years ago I started a business in mainly web design, so I designed websites for clients [00:02:00] in the Netherlands and quickly already realized, you can deliver a pretty website but if there’s no marketing behind it then nothing is happening. I was like, “Okay I can either outsource marketing or I can learn it myself.”
I started reading books about it and I followed seminars and got really enthusiastic in it. It was like, man this is really cool stuff, like all the data and the numbers. I really loved that and to analyze stuff, and A/B test things and share those things with clients. I realized that I was really helping [00:02:30] people instead of just delivering a website-
Chris Davis: Yeah
Max van Collenb: Then I also started sharing it with people. Yeah, so that’s how I got really into online marketing and like got really enthusiastic about it and yeah, you’re still learning new stuff every day and trying out new, cool strategies that other people aren’t even trying out yet. Yeah, that’s also how I got into messenger marketing and chatbots and everything.
Chris Davis: Got you. Now, you said you love the analytics and the optimizing and everything … That is not a theme. [00:03:00] That is not a common theme amongst web developers and marketers, believe it or not. Were you always naturally good with numbers or where do you think that comes from? Just that it seems like you have a native, analytical approach to business and online. Where did that come from? Did you pick it up, did you always have it when you look back you’re like “You know what I’ve always, even when I was counting my money to go buy candy, I always realized.” What was it?
Max van Collenb: Yeah, I’m not sure. I just [00:03:30] really like numbers and I think especially with online marketing it’s so important to measure what you’re actually doing and you can do it in fairly simple ways, like how many people do open my emails? How many people click on my links? How many people in the end, become a customer? What is the customer [inaudible 00:03:46] value to the customer?
If you know all those things, then marketing also becomes way easier and I think especially with email marketing, like we just test out different emails and you see which email is performing better and then you just keep [00:04:00] trying new things and then, in the end, you will just have better marketing.
Chris Davis: Yeah, I agree. You know what, another thing you mentioned, was getting started in web development. That’s where you and I share similar paths. I think this is probably more common than not. A lot of people start with websites, because that seems to be the most basic need for every business, so it’s like, yeah, every business should be online. It’s the digital age and you soon [00:04:30] find out … Go ahead.
Max van Collenb: Yeah, I was really doing the design of the websites, so I’m not like a programmer or something. I can’t program.
Chris Davis: Alright, so you were doing the design and you were probably working with a developer?
Max van Collenb: Yeah, true.
Chris Davis: Okay and then at that point, you get, and everybody’s different but it seemed like your learning curve was short, just like mine, where it’s like, you pat yourself on the back so many times. You’re like “Man, that website looks good. Man, that was a good job.” And then, [00:05:00] that’s not enough, right? It’s like, it looks good man-
Max van Collenb: Yeah, it’s true. People want customers. That’s what they want in the end and it just needs good marketing for that. First, I was like, looking at tactics like, okay, how can you make more people buy something on a website? How can you increase conversion? That’s not just it, you need more and yeah, it’s just like, yeah.
Chris Davis: Yeah, it’s a holistic approach and I’m glad we’ve had Steve Woody on the podcast. I’ve interviewed Steve Woody on the podcast [00:05:30] and he talks about the approach to optimizing websites and then I had Phil Singleton on the podcast and he talked about the overall SEO strategy, right? Like how you should be approaching your website beyond, like we’ve been mentioning, design. When you’re building a website, here’s the trick, right? You’re patting yourself on the back because it looks good and the client is also like “I’ve got a website!” They think [00:06:00] business online is done. They’re like “Finally! I like having a nice website.”
Max van Collenb: Yeah, clients don’t believe themselves, you know? Like …
Chris Davis: Yeah, so they have no clue and if you’re not a savvy designer or developer, to let them know, like “Hey, we have to get to marketing,” they’ll just accept this website is the beginning of business. Store’s open. Where’s the money?
Max van Collenb: Yeah, like people have to find your website, somehow. You can have the best website, the best looking website, the best converting website, [00:06:30] but if there’s nobody going to the website then also nothing is happening.
Chris Davis: Yeah, absolutely.
Max van Collenb: It’s also the same with email marketing. You can try to write the best emails but if you don’t have anyone on your list, like zero audience, then just nothing is going to happen. You need an audience or visitors of some kind first.
Chris Davis: Yeah and list building has been a challenge across the board, I’ve found, for a lot of people, just understanding the theory to it. It prevents them from being really original [00:07:00] in their lead generation. They feel like they have to do a carbon copy of what they’ve seen before or what someone else did or because someone has a PDF, they feel like they need a PDF. I just recorded a podcast on the three ways to leverage your email list but maybe I’ll have somebody come on to talk about actual list building strategies and an approach to it.
But you Max, you did something very interesting lately, recently, I should say. You posted, in the ActiveCampaign [00:07:30] Facebook user group, a neat strategy on how you’re using Facebook Messenger and ActiveCampaign.
Max van Collenb: Yeah.
Chris Davis: I wanted to give you the floor and just kind of talk through the strategy and start at what made you even go to Facebook Messenger, as another medium to engagement.
Max van Collenb: I’m already using Active Campaign for like, one odd years or something now. I really [00:08:00] love it. It’s super easy to use and like what I said, I’m not a programmer and that makes it so great, like all the automations you can do with it. I started out very simple, just like delivering a lead magnet or something and then I was like “Oh, wait! I can also send another email and if somebody doesn’t open that email … Man, this is amazing!” I don’t know, I was just trying to expel … I was like, “Okay, what else can I do with this?” Then, I don’t know, somehow Messenger chatbots crossed my newsfeed or something [00:08:30] or somebody told me about it, I’m not sure anymore.
Then I checked out the platform that I’m using now. It’s called ManyChat. I think, in lots of ways, it’s very similar to ActiveCampaign, so it’s also very visual, like, you have your message and then you have some waiting time. Then this happens and you have conditions, like if somebody does this or this and that happens.
Chris Davis: Nice.
Max van Collenb: I just played with that a bit and I was like, “Oh, man, this is really cool stuff.” Then I asked a client “Hey, would you [00:09:00] be interested if I make something like this for you?” Just to try it out because I didn’t have any experience and then I did that and it was this huge success.
Chris Davis: Wow.
Max van Collenb: He was having brochures on his website and then you could download his brochures by clicking the ‘send to Messenger’ button. Then instead of that you were collecting emails, somebody only had to click that button, then it went to Messenger and then I would ask something like “Hey, which brochure do you want? We have different ones!” [00:09:30] Then like, “Okay, sure! Is it okay if I sent it over by email?” And then people say “Yeah, sure.” Or they say “No,” and if they say, “Yes sure,” then I’m like “What is your email?” Loads and loads of people gave their emails so it’s really easy to get into Messenger for them because you don’t have to provide any information like, you know-
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Max van Collenb: They don’t have to fill in their name and email address. They’re not like, “Okay, you’re going to spam me.” Then they get Messenger and then you just ask for [00:10:00] it like “Hey, should I send it to you?” If they say no, you can maybe ask “Oh. Why not?” You can also send it with Messenger, if you want.
I’m really using this for lots and lots of different ways and I think it’s especially cool that if somebody’s not on your email list yet and you can just ask for it like “Hey, shall I send you something cool to your email?” I always say it like “Okay, I’m going to send this to you by email,” because otherwise they’re like “Hey, why are you not sending it by Messenger?” Then if people click ‘yes’, then they can type their emails and then [00:10:30] it will say something like “Okay, start typing your email address now and check for typos.” That thing that I posted in the ActiveCampaign group on Facebook is about that, like what is happening then?
Chris Davis: Yeah, so real quick Max. I realize that you and I are fairly familiar with this topic, so let me just-
Max van Collenb: I know, the curse of knowledge, I guess.
Chris Davis: Let me back up a bit. First off, all of this conversation that you’re saying you’re having is automated. You’ve already programed the entire [00:11:00] chat in ManyChat.
Max van Collenb: Yeah, everything is automated. That’s the cool thing about it. I was thinking, ‘chatbot’ is a bit of an ugly word but it’s more like an automated conversation you have with someone.
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Max van Collenb: Somebody presses that button on a website, for example, like they can also press a link on Facebook or comment on a post and then they go to a certain point inside of your Messenger page, like the Facebook page that you have set up, and from that page, [00:11:30] you can send messages. Then you can just like, in ActiveCampaign, say “Okay, I want to send this message,” then I want to wait to three seconds and then it’s like typing and “Send this message.” Then I want to ask this or that-
Chris Davis: And you can wait for them to reply?
Max van Collenb: Yeah, you can wait for them to reply, like with the email, you can ask for someone, like “Hey, what is your email,” and as soon as they reply, then you say “Okay, thanks, I will send it to,” the [00:12:00] email address, in five minutes.
Chris Davis: Oh, man.
Max van Collenb: It’s really cool stuff and then you can make it really complicated. For example, I’ve now set up with ActiveCampaign that when somebody does that, I make them reply to the first email, saying like “Hey, I want your emails. I’m human,” just to get some engagement and also tell the provider, “Okay, hey, this guy is not spamming anyone.” Out of like 72% of [00:12:30] the people that are replying to that, but the people that don’t reply to that get another message in Messenger, saying “Hey, you didn’t open your email yet,” or something. That’s something really cool you can do with ActiveCampaign but that’s a bit more complicated maybe, yes.
Chris Davis: Yeah, but you know what you’re highlighting is that this Messenger strategy that you’ve been using, allows you to start a conversation, before asking for the email, right?
Max van Collenb: Right. Yeah, yeah. [inaudible 00:12:58]
Chris Davis: Where, in traditional email marketing, [00:13:00] that’s flipped. I have to have the email to have a conversation.
Max van Collenb: Yeah, it’s true. You need them to have them in your Messenger but they don’t have to provide any information, they only have to click a button and then they click, maybe press, ‘get started’ and the whole conversation is just automated. I think it’s really cool and also, ask questions, inside of Messenger. For example, I’m asking now so I made a little chatbot about how to make chatbots and the first question [00:13:30] I ask people is “Do you make chatbots for your own business or for clients?”
That tells me more about them so I’m segmenting them and then I ask them the second question, like, “Okay, so what is your current skill level in this?” Some people will be really good but some people are just total beginners, so I ask them “How would you rate your own skills, on a scale from one to ten. People that click like one, they get more like beginners’ [00:14:00] messages but people that say eight, nine, or ten and I’m like “Whoa, you’re really a pro! You know lots about this!” Then they all-
Chris Davis: Wow.
Max van Collenb: Advanced stuff so that way, you’re also more relevant to people and that’s also very important with email marketing so I think that email marketing and Messenger marketing have really lots of things in common.
Chris Davis: Definitely. Now, this information that you collect, what can you send back to ActiveCampaign and how does it look? Is it just [00:14:30] a tag or can you actually populate custom fields, based on their reply? What does that look like?
Max van Collenb: Almost everything. I think it’s really cool so I’m using Zapier for that.
Chris Davis: Okay.
Max van Collenb: It’s like ManyChat has like a connection with that and like ActiveCampaign has a connection with that so as soon as somebody is filling in their email in Messenger, then Zapier will be triggered and that Zap that’s triggered can be [00:15:00] dispersed and fill in their email address for downloads.exe. Those that tell us which email or which download they want, for example, so that’s the trigger of the Zap.
Then, you can pass on lots of information to ActiveCampaign so you already have their first name, their last name. You know their language, you know [inaudible 00:15:28] of their country. [00:15:30] You know their gender so it’s, for example, cool if you have a clothing store or something. I think also their time zone and custom fields. You can fill in also text, so I’m using, for example, the text to tell ActiveCampaign which download it should send.
Chris Davis: Sure.
Max van Collenb: I hope that’s clear and not too complicated.
Chris Davis: No, that makes sense. Is it sending [00:16:00] the Zap, when you have it set up, is it sending the information as they type it or is it waiting for a certain point to say, “Okay, conversation over,” or “Paused,” or whatever, and then it sends it over?
Max van Collenb: Yeah, as soon as somebody types in their email address and presses ‘enter’, then an action is attached and in that action, you can trigger the Zap. Then-
Chris Davis: Ah, I got you.
Max van Collenb: As soon as somebody types in their email, [00:16:30] you can trigger a Zap here and then the download’s already been sent and then Messenger, you could just continue the conversation or say “Hey, you’re done. It’s on its way. Hey, maybe you would also be interested in this.” Then you can maybe send them something else or sending lots of texts, asking like “Hey, is it okay if I send you a tip every few days?”
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Max van Collenb: You can do really cool stuff with that and if you combine it, I think that’s really cool. You can just collect those email addresses [00:17:00] what I said but if you really combine them so you really give the ManyChat ID’s, like the Facebook Messenger ID of a user. If you give that to ActiveCampaign, then you can also make it go the other way so if somebody doesn’t open a certain email you could also send that person a message-
Chris Davis: Oh.
Max van Collenb: On Messenger, saying “Hey, I’ve just sent you an email but I saw you didn’t open it,” or something like it.
Chris Davis: Oh, [00:17:30] that is crazy.
Max van Collenb: It’s so, so powerful. Yeah, people’s inboxes are super crowded. They have so many emails, it’s easy to miss something and then you could even crazier, like if you see that somebody has a Gmail account, you know this person of Gmail, it often ends up in their promotion folder. You could make a condition inside of ManyChat so in Messenger, if this person, their email address contains [00:18:00] Gmail, then you could also say, after they type their email address, “Hey, with Gmail, it often ends up in their promotion folder,” or when they don’t open their email, you could send them a message like “Hey, you didn’t open your email yet. Click the button below to go to your Gmail inbox, like super relevant. You make it so easy-
Chris Davis: Wow
Max van Collenb: Really, I think it’s really, really cool stuff. All automated.
Chris Davis: It is. I mean, as you mentioned, the possibilities [00:18:30] are endless and what is exciting about it, everybody who’s been listening to the podcast knows I am a fanatic of personalized marketing, so this is personalized marketing at its finest.
Max van Collenb: Yeah. [inaudible 00:18:45]
Chris Davis: And I’ll admit, Max, when I first started hearing about it being used, I was like “Uh.” I was put off a bit because everybody has those message requests from people they don’t know. [00:19:00] It’s just like …
Max van Collenb: Yes. [inaudible 00:19:02]
Chris Davis: Thankfully, Facebook started filtering that.
Max van Collenb: Such ugly words. As soon as somebody hears the word ‘chatbot’ they’re like “Ugh.” We like to keep things personal but … I put lots of videos of myself, talking in my chatbot, for example, or photos of me working in the café and we can also build a connection with someone. I think, in some ways, this is maybe sort of queer in an email marketing, like in email marketing you can also add images and stuff but not videos. [00:19:30] You could send them to videos. I think that’s really cool.
Chris Davis: Nice.
Max van Collenb: It’s so important to keep it personal, like you already know so much about them and especially be asking a few questions, you can make it so relevant to someone. You can really get to know what their problems are, what they’re trying to learn, what the skill level is.
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Max van Collenb: Yeah, this way you can send relevant content and yeah, that’s just really cool.
Chris Davis: That’s great. You mentioned in the example before, [00:20:00] and I’ve been seeing this more and more now, you can go to somebody’s contact page or a specific page and there’s a link that’s like “Send us a message,” or “Talk to us on Facebook,” or something like that. When you click the link, it just fires up Facebook Messenger right there and you can easily start typing so now we’re bypassing contact forms that require your name, your email, your subject. All those things.
Max van Collenb: [00:20:30] Yeah, I actually have a contact form on my website and one half is like an email form and the other half is like “Click here,” and “Send me a message to Messenger.” I was thinking about putting a big red cross through the form. It was like, yeah you know, I’m talking lots about Messenger marketing and stuff like … Also, nobody is sending me emails anymore. People only send me messages on Messenger so it also makes it easier for me to coordinate the whole thing and it’s also easier to reply on Messenger [00:21:00] than on email because email is a bit more formal maybe-
Chris Davis: It is.
Max van Collenb: [inaudible 00:21:05] a line and then some question and then like, it’s all going very quick.
Chris Davis: This is so good because, you know what Max? Just the other day, as of right now, they said … I can’t remember if the stat was one third or one fourth. It was either one third or one fourth of the world, not of a specific country, of the world, is [00:21:30] using Facebook.
Max van Collenb: Yeah.
Chris Davis: That’s just-
Max van Collenb: I’m surprised it’s only one fourth but or like one third-
Chris Davis: Yeah, it’s probably one third and I’m just thinking, when we’re talking about this, it’s not a small … Like the success rate of this is not tiny. This is a third of billions of-
Max van Collenb: It’s huge.
Chris Davis: People that you could potentially reach and have a very personalized conversation with.
Max van Collenb: Yeah.
Chris Davis: As you mentioned, a lot [00:22:00] of people are not filling out the contact form anymore, when they have that option.
Max van Collenb: Yeah and it’s also easy to send follow-ups, for example, with the brochure that that guy has, that you can download. You can also automate that if somebody clicks that link, so they have to click ‘get started’ so that’s like they give persmission to send your stuff in Messenger and they can always unsubscribe by typing ‘stop.’ I lost it, what did I just say?
Chris Davis: Yeah, you’re saying if they click the link in the [00:22:30] Messenger, you could also do something after that or I guess if they don’t click the link or if they do, kind of conditional. Don’t worry about it, we’ll keeping going. It’ll come back to you. You’ll be like “Oh, wait a minute, Chris. That … That’s what I meant.”
Max van Collenb: Oh. I know it again.
Chris Davis: There it is.
Max van Collenb: The automated follow-ups. That was what I wanted to say, it was like, what did I want to say? So what I wanted to tell is that when you click that button and you go to Messenger and then somebody gives permission to send you that brochure or something, then you can also send [00:23:00] automated follow-ups on that. If you see somebody is not engaging, you can say “Hey, I noticed you didn’t click the link to the brochure,” or “Hey, I noticed you didn’t download our brochure,” or “Hey, you didn’t fill out your email address.” It’s really cool stuff, you can make it really relevant and especially with conditions.
Chris Davis: Yeah. You know what, Max? If anybody’s listening, I would love for you to test and report back but you know what? I’m just going to throw out a hypothesis right now, based on everything that we’ve been talking about [00:23:30] and what I see. If you’re running any form of Facebook advertising and there’s a call to action, it doesn’t matter it is, whether it’s Facebook leads or you’re taking them to a landing page, whatever the case is and they’ve taken that initial action, I am so confident … I haven’t even used it yet but I’m confident in my theory that I bet if you used this hybrid approach where you deliver whatever they ask for via email, because you need to capture their email address, and if they don’t take [00:24:00] action whether it’s download a PDF or register for a webinar. Whatever the next step is, sending them the reminder via Messenger, I bet you, increases the show-up or the effectiveness of them taking that action.
Max van Collenb: Just the open rates with Messenger, it’s just enormous. If you send a message out to people like 95% of those people will open it.
Chris Davis: That’s crazy.
Max van Collenb: I heard that, I [00:24:30] read that somewhere and I was like “That can’t be true.” With email marketing, I think it’s 20 to 30% or something. If you do really good, a bit more, 95% and also really quick, if I’m doing a broadcast with like a tip or something and then you just see people respond to it immediately, that they start clicking links and they just engage and in the end, 95% opens the message and I don’t know, maybe 60 or 70% starts clicking stuff and is engaging in Messenger, so I [00:25:00] think that’s really cool and especially if you use an email and Messenger and you combine it in a cool way, you have really powerful tools in hand.
What I think the cool thing is, is like, I’m not a programmer. I don’t know any programming. Sometimes I hire a programmer if I need something really complicated but all I just talked about, you can do without any programming knowledge. ActiveCampaign is super easy to use. It’s an easy tool but you still need the strategies [00:25:30] and stuff. Same for ManyChat. It’s easy to use but also with Zap, it’s amazing to connect all these things without any programming and I think this makes it so much easier to set all these things up.
The only thing you need is like a cool strategy, a good strategy that fits your business because a tool without strategy is still a tool.
Chris Davis: Yeah. I have a question I was thinking through this. [00:26:00] I know you walked through how to get their email address from Facebook. You start the chat, you start the conversation and then you say “Hey, can I send this to you in email? What’s the best email for me to send this to,” in a natural way. What about the other way, what about the people who are existing on your email list? Is there a way that you can identify if they exist on Facebook and chat with them that way?
Max van Collenb: Ask that again?
Chris Davis: If they’re already [00:26:30] on your email list and you want to use a chatbot or you want to use Facebook Messenger to also send them messaging, is there a way to send ManyChat the email and say “Hey, does this match a Facebook user,” and then you can send them a chat or it has to start with Facebook to ActiveCampaign?
Max van Collenb: Yeah, the thing is is that they already have to be subscribed to your Messenger chatbot before you’re able to send something like to someone.
Chris Davis: Oh, [00:27:00] okay and how they subscribe is just by sending any message?
Max van Collenb: [inaudible 00:27:03] Yeah, otherwise you would just get spammed like crazy so-
Chris Davis: Okay.
Max van Collenb: There are like easy and cool ways to do that so, for example, the links you were talking about, you can click a link that takes you to Messenger so what I do with people that I already have on my email list, and I see that they’re not connected to Messenger yet because they don’t have that tag, then I say like “Hey, I have something super cool for you.” I just turn it the other way around, like [00:27:30] “I have a cool download for you. Just click this link and grab it in Messenger,” and then people click the link. Then I say something like “Hey, cool to see you here. Here is your download,” and then I often also ask like “Hey, what is the email that you signed up with to my list?” That way, you don’t have to do that, but that way you can really connect with each other.
Chris Davis: I got you.
Max van Collenb: You can also look up names in your Messenger subscriber list. [00:28:00] Names have to be unique. I, for example, my email list only has first names and email addresses and if you go by the last name, it’s very hard to look it up. It’s the same with Messenger, that if you collect their email with Messenger, then you have their first name, their last name, you know where they live, you know their language. You know everything about them.
Chris Davis: Nice. So when you say ‘subscribes to Messenger,’ they subscribe by sending [00:28:30] any text to you, whether it’s “Hi.” … Anytime they chat to you, they’re essentially subscribed.
Max van Collenb: Yeah, true. I always make it very clear … I’ll make it very easy to opt out from it. It can also be really annoying if you don’t want it so the first message people always get from me is like “Hey, Max, good to see you here. Before we get started or before I send you your downloads or before we start the tutorial, [00:29:00] I just want to let you know, this is a chatbot, it’s not a human. You can always stop these messages by typing ‘stop.’
That way they also know, okay, this is a chatbot. There is not somebody sitting there, sending me messages like crazy.
Chris Davis: Yeah. You know what, I’ve seen a lot of good usage of it. Recently, I’ve seen eCommerce stores use it to let you know “Hey, your package is on the way.” I’ve seen software, this kind of bothered me more than anything though, it was software that I was using [00:29:30] and they would chat and say “Hey, haven’t seen you in a while. Want to log in today?” I’m just like “Well, if I wanted to log in, I would have logged in.” I get what they’re doing, they don’t want me to slip away but …
Max van Collenb: I think you have to be very careful with those.
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Max van Collenb: This is really intrusive, like you’re in somebody’s inbox [inaudible 00:29:46] and they get a message or something on their phone. I think you have to use it very careful and Facebook has really, really strict rules about how to use it so you really have to read their policies about what you can do or what you cannot do. For example, [00:30:00] you cannot send any promotional content to a Messenger subscriber, after they didn’t engage for twenty-four hours so you could not say, for example, “Hey, Josh. Here are coupons for our store.”
Something like that. You cannot do that. You have to ask them a question, like you could say “Hey, George, we have something cool for you. Do you want to know what?” It doesn’t have to be promotional but you have to be really [00:30:30] careful with that, otherwise, Facebook would just kick you off their platform and they are glad. It would be a waste.
Chris Davis: That’s a good point. Yeah, so definitely read the guidelines.
Max van Collenb: I really like these rules. They’re really strict, I think, but it also maintains that it doesn’t get used in a bad way. If every page would start sending you coupons and offers, you would go crazy and then the open rates of Messenger would also go way down. With email, people get spammed like crazy because there’s nobody monitoring [00:31:00] what you’re actually sending or what you’re getting.
Chris Davis: Yeah. That’s true. I would say too, one thing that’s really, oh my gosh, the Facebook marketing right now is really opening up because we just launched Facebook custom audiences.
Max van Collenb: Yeah, I know this.
Chris Davis: My mind, right now, I can’t even begin to think about the possibilities between chat, ManyChat or a chatbot service, [00:31:30] custom audiences, ActiveCampaign, and whatever type of marketing you can implement there.
Max van Collenb: It’s really cool and then I think the thing is, with Messenger marketing, is also like running ads. You can run ads to get people to go to a landing page and fill in their email address there or you can just make them click a button, which goes to Messenger and you’re half done.
There is so much less friction.
Chris Davis: Wow. [00:32:00] I will say this, not to rain on Facebook’s parade. In that same report, Max, they were talking about a third or so of people in the world are on Facebook and then they said the number has actually dropped three percent. The three percent has gone to two platforms, they set account for, and that’s Instagram and Snapchat. We’re seeing … Facebook owns Instagram so, it keeps [00:32:30] moving.
Max van Collenb: [inaudible 00:32:31]
Chris Davis: So I say all that to say, everybody listen, gone are the times of the past where you can sit on your hands and wait around and see, “Let me just wait for this technology to prove itself.” Right? By the time you’ve waited for chatbots to say “Okay, everybody seems to be using it, let’s get in there,” they’ll be on to something else. They’ll be on to image ads or something like that or whatever, on some other platform.
Max, I want to thank you, man, for coming on and sharing. Being so insightful man, you gave [00:33:00] so many details, just an open book.
Max van Collenb: Yeah, you’re welcome.
Chris Davis: Yes, I really appreciate it and what I want to do is, you put an amazing video in the ActiveCampaign Facebook group and I know you do a lot of training on this. I know that wasn’t the only group. Is it hosted anywhere on your website or somewhere where somebody could get access to it and start watching exactly what you’ve mentioned here and see it in action?
Max van Collenb: Yeah, [00:33:30] you could do two things. I started this Facebook group. It’s called Smart Chatbot Strategies or you could just go to my page and … I’m doing lots inside of Facebook, instead of inside Messenger now and the way it works. Also the same ActiveCampaign group. I also post the link there and if you click that link, you go inside of Messenger and you can just start with that training about what I’m talking about now. You just click [00:34:00] the link and you see all the videos and it’s just really cool.
Chris Davis: Perfect. Well listen, make sure you send me those links after this and I’ll be sure to add them in the show notes because I want everybody to … We talked about a lot and we probably went more detailed than most people were expecting.
Max van Collenb: Yeah, I think we could talk for another hour. It’s really exciting.
Chris Davis: Yes.
Max van Collenb: Yeah because you can do really cool things with it and even if you’re just starting out and you’re not like super marketing savvy, this is major [00:34:30] easy to set up. You need some strategy but the tools are really easy to use and I think this is really cool.
Chris Davis: Great. Well Max, again man, thank you so much for sharing your insight. I’m grateful. I am excited to see, not only what you do, but now that we have people who have listened and hopefully willing and courageous to go try it themselves … Results that they’re seeing. And the business types, right, because it can work with any business? We’re just [00:35:00] talking about personalized marketing so, again man, thank you.
Max van Collenb: Yeah can just do so many cool things, like I had one girl in my group and she was doing something with fitness and personal training. I was like, “Yeah, you know, you could just send out every day, or every two days, a cool video of a workout.” She was posting that online on Facebook but Facebook’s organic reach for timelines is really, really low.
Chris Davis: Right.
Max van Collenb: But if you send it in Messenger, like the video so you just say “Hey, I sent you every two days a video, [00:35:30] with these trainings.” She’s also seeing a 95% open rate for all those things and you can also, like in ActiveCampaign, you can do lead scoring. After my tips, I always ask people, “How do you like this tip?” People can say “Good, Meh, or Bad.” They also get points assigned for that.
Chris Davis: Beautiful.
Max van Collenb: The possibilities are endless, you can do so many cool things with this.
Chris Davis: Wow, the possibilities truly [00:36:00] are endless and I’ll leave it at that. I’ll leave it to you all to start figuring out “Hey, how can I make this work for me and my business?”
Max, again, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. If you ever need anything, reach out. We’ve got the Facebook group. Man, I just love the amount of the value that you’re giving, man, so I appreciate it.
Max van Collenb: Yeah, cool. Thanks, man.
Chris Davis: Alright, I’ll see you online, Max.
Max van Collenb: Yeah, we’ll see each other a lot. Talk soon.
Chris Davis: Alright. [00:36:30] Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode. Max was amazing, was he not? By the way, he did give me permission to call him Max. His formal name is Max, so thank you for that, Max.
One thing that is really, really important to capture from here is, remember when Facebook had pages and you had Facebook pages and you could like the pages and all of that was showing in news feeds? That’s all you had to do, right? [00:37:00] Then they limited the reach of pages and then you had to have, I think they were like personal pages, then they moved from personal to business pages.
Then they moved to Facebook groups being where you get all of the engagement. The fact of the matter is things are always changing on these digital mediums. Now we have Facebook Messenger as a medium to do our marketing on and what we mentioned in the podcast is true and it’s something that you’re going to really have to really take into account, going forward, is that these platforms are not slowing down. They’re not [00:37:30] slowing down.
There’s going to be coming more and more ways to engage and the company that can adapt them the fastest, within their own marketing strategy is he company that is always going to have the upper edge and as long as you’ve got it integrated with a platform like ActiveCampaign, that can centralize all of that communication and organize it for you, so that you can stay very segmented and targeted with your messaging, you’ll be good.
If you’re not subscribed to this podcast, [00:38:00] please do so now, right now. We’re in iTunes, Stitcher Radio, Google Play, SoundCloud. Anywhere you can access a podcast feed, we’re there. Please subscribe. Please leave a review, a five star rating. Let’s get the word out, everybody. Everybody deserves to hear this type of knowledge and tutelage on marketing automation and if you need help, we have a bunch of resources for you on ActiveCampaign.com/training.
You can set up [00:38:30] a one-on-one and talk to somebody, in person, about your account or your business and if you scroll down to the bottom of that page, you can also register for office hours, where I can provide live help for you and walk through some automation or business cases that you’re facing, live. This is twice a week, Tuesday and Friday.
Lastly, if you’re more of a self-learner, we’ve got ActiveCampaign.com/learn. That’s where you have all of the guided content, our guides, videos, webinars, whatever you need to learn at your pace. [00:39:00] This is the ActiveCampaign podcast, the small business podcast to help you scale and propel your business with automation. I’ll see you on the next episode.