Episode 4: Dominating Email Deliverability with Alex Burch

Deliverability Specialist Alex Burch joins Chris to talk about how to avoid the dreaded spam folder.


In our fourth episode, we tackle deliverability. Chris chats with our very own Alex Burch, a support team member who specializes in stumping the spam folder.
Wonder what factors affect deliverability the most? Unable to tell if your deliverability is good or bad? Just want to learn what the heck deliverability is to begin with? Listen in as Chris and Alex answer those questions and more.
Chris Davis: Welcome to the ActiveCampaign Podcast. I am your host, Chris Davis, the director of education here at ActiveCampaign, and in today’s episode, I had the opportunity to sit down with Alex Burch, our deliverability specialist, to talk about how you can get the best deliverability, using ActiveCampaign. Let’s jump right into the episode.
Alex, welcome to the podcast, the ActiveCampaign Podcast, that is. How are you [00:00:30] doing today?
Alex Burch: I’m doing well.
Chris Davis: Great, great. You are a deliverability specialist. What is a deliverability specialist?
Alex Burch: I guess my job is to help our clients deliver messages to the inbox. That’s really what we do, I guess.
Chris Davis: Which is huge, and why I’m so excited to have you on the podcast, because so many of our new users, this is one of the barometers [00:01:00] in which they judge the platform by. I see, often, from support and success, people say, “Hey, how is the deliverability with ActiveCampaign, compared to,” insert current tool there, using? I thought this podcast would be very special, to help shape expectations around exactly what deliverability is, how to approach it, and how to win in this deliverability game, but before we jump too [00:01:30] deep into that, tell us a little bit about your background, Alex. What have you done in the past, here?
Alex Burch: Yeah, absolutely. Before ActiveCampaign, I worked at a small email agency, and we essentially worked with really high volume senders, like people who send five, 10 million, 20 million a month, a wide range. These were people who wanted us to basically kind [00:02:00] of really pamper them, and watch their deliverability very closely, so it was a very personal … I mean, I would literally sit there all day and just watch their accounts, and figure out what the problems were and how they could improve. It was just a lot of detailed monitoring.
Chris Davis: Yeah. Now, is that what got you started in deliverability? Did you have your mind set on this the whole time, or did you just kind of fall into it, and it was like, “Hey, this is …”
Alex Burch: Yeah, I sort of fell into it, but like you said, it’s [00:02:30] a big barometer for people, when they choose an email partner. One of the biggest things, especially for certain organizations, is, “How much are they going to help me with deliverability?” That’s really what our agency specialized in, was kind of handholding our clients through deliverability.
Chris Davis: Yeah, nice. If at all possible … I mean, for us online marketers, deliverability is really important, and high deliverability excites us. It’s kind [00:03:00] of like the inner nerd in the marketer. What excites you about deliverability?
Alex Burch: I guess that it’s a fund, complex challenge.
Chris Davis: Yeah.
Alex Burch: It’s kind of like a three dimensional puzzle. You never know exactly where the problem’s coming from. It takes a lot of, I guess, looking at things from different angles, and you see really good results if you do things well. You see result, and open rates, click rates, and revenue. It’s cool to see that you’re helping people, their [00:03:30] businesses, do better.
Chris Davis: Absolutely. Those reasons that you just listed are why I was like, “You know what? We have to do this podcast sooner than later,” because I think that it’s common knowledge, an enticing headline will help your opens. Relevant messaging will increase your clicks. Clarity in your product offering, and your market’s desires and needs will increase [00:04:00] revenue, but deliverability is like right in between all of those, because you can’t really complete any of it without your message actually going into their inbox.
Alex Burch: Yeah, absolutely.
Chris Davis: Of course now, there’s more people adapting email marketing, digital marketing strategies, and email just has become more like the foundation, whereas before, email was the thing. Like, “Sending emails. Can you believe it?” Now [00:04:30] it’s like send emails, and be able to do this, and be able to do … Since we’re building on top of email, it’s made it even more and more important to be able to get your email in there, but I would say we’re already kind of advanced. In this podcast, we’re talking about deliverability, and many people may not even know, or we may have already lost them, so if you’ve [00:05:00] been trying to hang on by a thread, it’s going to get easier, because Alex, how would you define deliverability?
Alex Burch: Yeah, it’s kind of a broad term, and I think it really should stay that way, because it doesn’t mean one thing in particular. In a very simple way, it’s just getting messages to the inbox, because we all know that that doesn’t happen, and it’s impossible to have 100% of your messages go to the inbox, so it’s a constant battle [00:05:30] of improving how many messages are going to the inbox, versus obviously the spam folder or somewhere else.
Chris Davis: Yep. I think the biggest piece in what you just said is, “Nobody should anticipate 100% deliverability.” Although we say that, I don’t think people have consciously made that a known fact. I think, just they assume, “I hit send, and all [00:06:00] of my emails are going to inboxes, people are opening, clicking, and I’ll be rich. I’ll be rich soon,” so I’m glad you say that. What is the email inbox? What is that? I mean, I just don’t want to assume anybody knows anything. What is the inbox, and what’s the importance of the inbox with different email clients? To my understanding, the inbox looks totally different from like Gmail, where you’ve got all of these [00:06:30] tabs, and [crosstalk 00:06:32] Outlook.com. What would you say is the inbox?
Alex Burch: Yeah, that’s a good question. The inbox is basically anything not in the spam folder or not in trash. Example, at Gmail, we do consider, and this is contentious, we consider the promotions tab to be inbox, because people use it, they sort through their promotional mail as if it’s valid mail. They don’t consider [00:07:00] that mail junk. It’s promotions. It’s not junk. We do consider anything that’s not in trash or spam to be inbox.
Chris Davis: Which is important, right? A lot of marketers online will teach you how to avoid the promotions tab.
Alex Burch: Uh-huh (Affirmative).
Chris Davis: Well, if the inbox is described or defined as inclusive to the promotions tab, and your email lands in the promotions tab, that’s still good deliverability.
Alex Burch: Exactly, yeah. That’s important to know, too.
Chris Davis: Yeah, that’s [00:07:30] very important, because these platforms, they’re all configured so differently, right? You can log into any one at any time. I use them all, just to make sure that I understand the lay of the land, and I think your definition of anything not spam, or what was the other one, spam and trash?
Alex Burch: Trash, uh-huh (Affirmative).
Chris Davis: If it doesn’t land in the spam, or it doesn’t land in the trash, it’s delivered.
Alex Burch: Exactly.
Chris Davis: It’s delivered. It’s like a house, right? It can be in your mailbox. They could have left the package on the front door.
Alex Burch: Yeah, exactly.
Chris Davis: Could have left it on [00:08:00] the side, but it’s up to you to say, “Okay, since I know that my message can hit these, or my delivery can hit these certain places, let me make sure I have something in place to take advantage of that,” for lack of a better term.
Alex Burch: Yeah, and that’s definitely not just ActiveCampaign’s. That’s kind of the industry accepted, what is the inbox? If you talk to anyone in the deliverability world, they would all say that promotions tab is considered inbox.
Chris Davis: Yeah, that’s [00:08:30] a good one. What would you say are the top five factors that have a direct impact on your deliverability?
Alex Burch: Yeah, this is definitely very subjective, because I think overall, there’s probably 10 or 15 concrete things that ISPs like Gmail and Yahoo have told us that they measure a sender’s reputation on, but the top five that I guess I’d generally look at are obviously open rates, not to be [00:09:00] discounted. In open rates, I include open volume, so how many people are actually opening your message? An open rate can be deceiving. 1% of 100,000 is 1000, so it’s sometimes helpful to look at open volume instead of just open rate.
Then there’s complaint rates. That’s when someone clicks, “Mark as spam,” “This is spam.” That’s a negative factor.
Chris Davis: Okay, that’s when they click it in the [00:09:30] inbox?
Alex Burch: Exactly, yeah.
Chris Davis: Okay.
Alex Burch: Then there’s bounce rates. Obviously, if you’re sending to a lot of invalid email addresses, they all bounce back. That’s a very negative factor on your reputation as a sender.
Chris Davis: Yeah, let’s pause there for a second, because right when you said bounce rates, and I’m thinking about complaint rates, a lot of people, their mind, anybody familiar with email marketing goes to, “Oh, that’s why I use double opt-in. [00:10:00] That’s why double opt-in solves the problem.” In your expert experience, have you seen a big advantage of double opt-in over no opt-in or single opt-in?
Alex Burch: In terms of deliverability, absolutely. Double opt-in will have a hugely positive impact on your deliverability, because it eliminates almost all invalid accounts. You won’t be sending to anyone who’s going to bounce if they verify their email address. [00:10:30] There’s other things to take into consideration, because it does reduce the number of sign-ups. It can reduce your revenue, if you have less people coming in, but in terms of deliverability, strictly, it is a positive thing for sure.
Chris Davis: Okay, have you seen a lot of people handle that portion of the confirmation of the email addresses on their own effectively? For instance, in ActiveCampaign, we have the ability to tag people who haven’t clicked on a [00:11:00] link, or opened, and let’s say in this example, somebody’s monitoring people who haven’t clicked or opened an email, and they’re intentionally not sending email to them, so that the only people that they are sending emails to are people who have opened or clicked. Mainly clicked. They’ve kind of taken this double opt-in in their own hands. Would that have an impact as well, a positive impact on deliverability?
Alex Burch: Yeah, that’s a really cool idea, and I think lots of senders do that in one way [00:11:30] or another. Some of them use our strict, kind of out of the box confirmation process, which works great, but other people may use a softer approach, where they’re going to send a sequence of three or five messages, and then anyone who doesn’t respond to those ones, they won’t add them into their main list. They’ll basically treat them as unconfirmed. That’s a really smart thing to do.
Chris Davis: Yeah, because a lot of times, I look at double opt-in or manually handling your double opt-in as [00:12:00] a means of increasing your deliverability, but we also have to understand, nobody is perfect, right? There are some times where people enter a typo on accident. We’re in the digital age where a lot of opt-ins are coming in on mobile devices. All it takes is for auto-complete to take your name and expand it to something else, and you didn’t even realize it, then you’re looking, and you’re like, “Oh, why didn’t I get that?”
Then, as the email sender, if you’re just blasting [00:12:30] every email that comes in, you’re just sending, you’re putting yourself at risk, too, so it definitely pays to either use the default double opt-in, that’s standard in your email provider. ActiveCampaign, we make it easy, because it’s right where you create the form, just right there, or take matters into your own hands, and make sure that you’re monitoring who’s clicking and who’s not.
Alex Burch: Exactly, yeah.
Chris Davis: All right, great. To pick back up where we were, [00:13:00] we talked about open rates, complaint rates, and just real quick, there’s two ways to complain right? One is, if I mark it as spam in my Gmail. The other one is to hit the unsubscribe link, then give feedback where they say, “Oh, you’ve been unsubscribed,” then they give you options, like we do on our unsubscribe page.
Alex Burch: Exactly.
Chris Davis: “Why did you unsubscribe?” Right there is where you can select a reasoning. [00:13:30] That’s more preferred than somebody selecting spam in their inbox, right?
Alex Burch: Yeah, absolutely, and that second type, I wouldn’t actually include in what I was calling a complaint rate, because that doesn’t really have a negative impact on your reputation as a sender, because that’s something that, it’s basically feedback that ActiveCampaign is collecting.
Chris Davis: Sure.
Alex Burch: It obviously indicates a problem-
Chris Davis: Yeah, definitely.
Alex Burch: … But it’s not going to have a negative impact on you [00:14:00] in a large way, in the same way mark as spam will.
Chris Davis: Great, so we have that. We have open rates are factors that directly affect your deliverability, complaint rates, bounce rates, sending to inactive accounts, then what were the last two?
Alex Burch: The last ones, a lot of things could go in there, but I threw in there, because I think they’re important, spam trap hits. That’s sending to accounts that basically [00:14:30] didn’t sign up, or they don’t ever sign up. They’re basically accounts that are out there, floating around, that are used to catch bad senders. It could be a typo.
Chris Davis: Oh, interesting.
Alex Burch: Somebody could enter the wrong address and it could accidentally happen to be a spam trap. I’ve seen that happen, but in lots of cases it indicates that someone has bought a list, that they’re basically forging email addresses, or that they’re using maybe data that’s 10 years old, and a lot of these addresses have been [00:15:00] turned into spam traps.
Chris Davis: Interesting.
Alex Burch: Yeah, it could happen a lot of different ways.
Chris Davis: Wow, so that is one of the things, because I often hear people ask, “Should I buy this list?” Because they’re trying to jumpstart their marketing, build some momentum, and instead of doing it organic, as everybody should, they may jump over and say, “Hey, I want to just buy a list.” I for one, you just educated me, I was not aware that some of those emails could be [00:15:30] spam trap.
Alex Burch: Exactly, and they will really hurt your deliverability.
Chris Davis: Wow. Okay, all right. What’s the last one?
Alex Burch: Delete without read rates. This is something that ISPs like Gmail have told us that they look at. They look at, basically, if you’re delivering emails, and people are deleting them, that’s a negative factor. You know, they’re deleting them before they read them. That hurts you as a sender, and it will have a negative impact on your deliverability.
Chris Davis: Oh man, I did [00:16:00] not know that. Of course, that’s every marketer’s fear is that you’re deleting my emails, but on the ESP, that’s smart. That’s smart on their behalf, because they need to take as much information as possible, to make the decision on whether or not the messaging being sent is relevant to you.
Alex Burch: Exactly.
Chris Davis: Wow, so in that vein, do they also look at the duration of time that an email sits in an inbox unopened, or just [00:16:30] total unopens?
Alex Burch: Yeah, I don’t know. I haven’t seen anything about that, about duration of time. I’m sure that they look at probably 100 things they haven’t told us about.
Chris Davis: Sure, sure.
Alex Burch: They’re trying to get a full picture on whether this mail is wanted or not, so it’s possible.
Chris Davis: Got you. Wow. We just recently created … Well, two things, at ActiveCampaign we added a migration service, so as of right now, if you go to ActiveCampaign.com/migration [00:17:00] … Check me on that, it’s either /migration or /migrate, we have services now that will help clients moving from one platform to ActiveCampaign. We’ll do that process for you. In migrating from one platform to another, because this is a big issue, where I see somebody’s, “Hey, I’m using MailChimp,” we’ll say. “I’m using MailChimp, and I’m getting a 30% open rate, [00:17:30] and then I move to ActiveCampaign, what happened? Why is the deliverability not as good in ActiveCampaign than MailChimp?” I always cringe. It doesn’t matter where they’re moving, because I’m like, “Ah, it doesn’t work like that.”
When you’re handling a migration, what are some things that you should keep in mind during that process, as far as deliverability?
Alex Burch: Yeah, there’s a lot that you need to be careful that you do right, because things can go wrong. [00:18:00] I guess the first thing is just to be realistic, that when you do move to a new provider, you almost always do see a dip in deliverability, because you were sending from an IP address with your old provider, and now you’ve moved to a new IP address. You’ve essentially lost that reputation that you built up before, and it takes some time to rebuild that.
Chris Davis: Sure.
Alex Burch: That’s the first thing is to realize you probably will see a dip, but there’s lots of other things you need to be really careful about. The biggest [00:18:30] mistake I think I see is sending too much mail too fast.
Chris Davis: Oh wow.
Alex Burch: That’s not applicable to someone who has a list of 5000 contacts, or 10,000 contacts. Those are moderate sized lists, but if you have a list of 50,000, 100,000, and you move to a new provider, you need to be very careful about how quickly you send to that full list.
Chris Davis: Interesting.
Alex Burch: It takes basically some cautious warmup.
Chris Davis: Okay, and that’s good. You used the term [00:19:00] moderate sized lists at about 5-10,000. I think that’s important to state as well, because a lot of people don’t know, “What’s a big list? What’s a small list?”
Alex Burch: Yeah.
Chris Davis: I tend to not focus so much on the size, more so than the engagement. Right? If you’ve got 50,000 people and 1000 of them are engaging, you’ve got a list of 1000.
Alex Burch: Yeah, that’s true.
Chris Davis: Let’s be honest with ourselves here, but I like how you [00:19:30] … As your list grows, and you’re migrating bigger and bigger lists, these are things to take into account. In our migration guide, we mention, try to import your most engaged leads. Put all of them in there, but start sending to your most engaged leads first, right?
Alex Burch: Absolutely.
Chris Davis: It’s almost like the first impression. A lot of times we liken marketing to relationship building, and deliverability is you’re building a relationship with your [00:20:00] provider now.
Alex Burch: Exactly.
Chris Davis: Right? Your new platform, instead of the company, and you need to show them, “Hey, look, I’m a solid, solid sender. I’m not going to spam anybody,” and you’ll be rewarded for that. I like to tell people, when you’re migrating, the grass is always greener, because there’s a reason why you’re leaving, but it will stay green if you do the right things and have the right expectations, right?
Alex Burch: Absolutely.
Chris Davis: It’s green if you understand the water and fertilizing. Well, in this instance it’s [00:20:30] understanding deliverability, size of your lists, when to send, how much messaging you need to send. These are very important factors. I’m so glad you cleared that up, and I did do a check here. It is ActiveCampaign.com/migrate, and you can get access to those migration services, if you’re looking to make the switch.
Alex, what are the three common mistakes you see people make, [00:21:00] when it comes to deliverability?
Alex Burch: Yeah. I think the most common is people who have not cleaned their list in a long time, and they have say a big list of however many people, but most of those people are not interested in their messages anymore, or maybe a lot of those email addresses don’t check their email anymore. You need to frequently clean those inactive [00:21:30] addresses from your list, and if you don’t, your deliverability will really tank.
Chris Davis: Yeah. I’m so glad you said. As you see, I’m glad you’re saying a lot of what you’re saying, but the reason being is there is a fear, I’ve realized, from people with cleaning their lists, because they view it as, “I’m deleting potential buyers. Like, these people may have bought from me at some point,” but if you [00:22:00] look at the negative implications of having a quote unquote “Dirty list,” they have much more grave consequences than they have benefits, right?
Alex Burch: Yeah, exactly.
Chris Davis: I think that, in that, you have to understand that it’s all about engaged leads, engaged people. If somebody is not engaged, as a marketer, I’m putting on my marketer’s hat here, but there [00:22:30] are other ways to re-engage them besides sending emails to them time and time again.
Alex Burch: Yes, exactly.
Chris Davis: I think we have to understand that email is one way, one means of communication. I’m so glad that we’re working on other ways of engaging here at ActiveCampaign pretty soon. We’ll have site messaging, which is another way of putting messaging in front of people. It essentially turns your web assets into [00:23:00] an inbox. Now, they may not be on your list, or they may be disengaged on your list, but maybe they’re really engaged on your website, so you can engage with them that way. It’s just important. I know a lot of what we do is email-driven, but it’s not the only means of communication.
Alex Burch: Yeah, exactly.
Chris Davis: Or engagement, or re-engagement.
Alex Burch: Just to qualify a little bit, you don’t always need to delete all those [00:23:30] people. You can just maybe send to them less frequently. If you have a group of people who haven’t opened in two years, you don’t want to be sending to them once a week.
Chris Davis: Yeah, that’s a good point.
Alex Burch: Maybe send to them once every three months, and then eventually delete them. I think it is good practice to eventually delete them, but there is a middle ground, where you don’t have to necessarily take a bunch of people and throw them into the garbage. You can just send to them in a different way, or like you said, use a different messaging medium to try to re-engage them.
Chris Davis: You [00:24:00] bring up a good point, because I can even envision an automation in ActiveCampaign, where you know how you can go to people’s websites, and you can select a frequency in which you get the messaging?
Alex Burch: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris Davis: I can see a strong case where you have an automation that monitors how engaged they are, and automatically sets the frequency for you.
Alex Burch: Yeah, exactly.
Chris Davis: If they haven’t opened an email in like three months, you can have an automation that looks, and after 90 days, it just sets their frequency [00:24:30] to, “Okay, only mail them every quarter,” or something.
Alex Burch: Exactly, you can tag them, or segment them in some way that indicates how often you should be mailing them.
Chris Davis: Sure, sure. All right, so the first one is not cleaning their list. What are the last two, when it comes to the common mistakes people make with deliverability?
Alex Burch: Yeah. The second one, by far, it’s kind of a giveaway is just poor sign-up practices, or just in general bad data collection. I mean, the obvious examples are people [00:25:00] who are buying lists, who are using really old data that they got from a partner company or something that essentially wasn’t collected organically, but then there’s gray areas, like people who are paying for opt-ins, so they’re technically opted in, but they’re paying for it, or people who are using basically misleading forms. They’re offering something, getting people to sign up, then sending them content that’s completely different, and from sometimes even a completely [00:25:30] different brand. That is basically a recipe for bad delivery.
Chris Davis: Yeah. It’s unfortunate, because you see it so often, we all fall victim of it, right?
Alex Burch: Yeah.
Chris Davis: You see the big promise, you give your email, then before you know it you’re just being spammed. Yeah, so that is important to know that. You’re pretty much starting off on the wrong foot, right?
Alex Burch: Yeah.
Chris Davis: It may look, again the numbers, you’re like, “Oh my gosh, I’ve got 10,000 opt-ins [00:26:00] in 30 days,” but none of them are engaged, because your messaging after the opt-in is not consistent with the expectation you set for the opt-in.
Alex Burch: Exactly. They won’t open and they won’t click, and they’re more than likely to mark as spam, which are all of the bad things you want to avoid.
Chris Davis: They’re all the bad things, so in essence, there is a role that you play, as the business owner and the primary sender. There’s a very strong [00:26:30] role that you play in deliverability. It’s not 100% on your platform, right?
Alex Burch: Yeah, absolutely. My favorite blog on deliverability, if anyone wants to go, Word to the Wise. I was just reading an article this morning, and she basically said, Laura Atkins, the author, she said that most deliverability problems come down to how the list was built. Unfortunately, if the list wasn’t built in the right way, then you will have deliverability [00:27:00] problems, and they will be nearly irresolvable, unless you rebuild the list the right way.
Chris Davis: Wow.
Alex Burch: It’s kind of a tough thing to tell people, but I think it’s very true.
Chris Davis: That’s really good, because as you’re saying this, I’m envisioning people getting started, and sometimes when you’re starting out in your business, well all the time when you’re starting out in your business, your messaging is not always as clear as you’d like it to be, but as you mature it gets sharper and sharper, so don’t feel bad about that, right?
Alex Burch: Exactly.
Chris Davis: [00:27:30] That’s a good thing, and as time goes on, your lead quality will increase, right?
Alex Burch: Yes, exactly.
Chris Davis: Yeah, that’s a really good quote.
Alex Burch: It helps to be up front, and just make sure that people know what they’re signing up to get.
Chris Davis: Absolutely.
Alex Burch: You will have good engagement, and you’ll have good deliverability if you manage that process well.
Chris Davis: Got you. Good one. All right, what’s the last one? What’s the last mistake?
Alex Burch: You know, this one I think you could throw in a lot of things here. There’s a lot of maybe minor mistakes [00:28:00] that people make that aren’t as prevalent as the first two we talked about, but I think sending frequency is important. Some people don’t send enough, and their people aren’t expecting to receive those emails if they get them once every month, or every few months, and that hurts deliverability.
Chris Davis: Okay.
Alex Burch: On the other side, I see very often people send too frequently. You know, you may spot check their account and you see certain contacts are getting five or 10 messages a day. [00:28:30] That’s way too much.
Chris Davis: Oh man, wow.
Alex Burch: That has a direct impact on your reputation, on your deliverability, so both ends of the spectrum. There’s a happy medium. Some brands need to send frequently, like Groupon. You expect to get a Groupon email in your inbox a few times a day if you sign up. Other brands, you just kind of need to know your brand.
Chris Davis: As you mentioned, it’s all about setting the expectation, and we just released a feature, split actions in automations, and [00:29:00] that feature, just as you’re talking, I see a strong use case for testing out what is a good frequency?
Alex Burch: Exactly.
Chris Davis: There’s no reason why you can’t have a split action in the automation, and on one path you’re sending emails every day. Then on the next path, perhaps you’re sending them every other day. Then you can just run them, parallel to each other, and see which one performs the best as far as clicks, or engagement, or open rates. I think, in [00:29:30] summary of this entire podcast, there is no one rule, no one way to accomplish this great deliverability. It’s all specific to you, your messaging. Like you say, Groupon, multiple times a week you’re going to get messaging.
Alex Burch: And you want to get them, usually, if you signed up for them.
Chris Davis: You want to get there, right? Marketers who are selling a book, or maybe an event, not so much.
Alex Burch: Exactly.
Chris Davis: Right? It’s important to pay attention to [00:30:00] your demographics, your target audience, their actions, and make sure you’re following sound practice. Alex, this was amazing. I’m so glad. I could literally talk to you for another hour about deliverability, and in fact, we’re going to have you back, because this is just a big topic. I just want to make sure everybody is very clear on all of the factors that play a part into getting their emails delivered to the inbox, so [00:30:30] I really appreciate it.
In parting, are there any last wise words, or nuggets that you would leave to our listeners?
Alex Burch: Wise words? There’s no magic wand or silver bullet when it comes to deliverability. It’s just hard work.
Chris Davis: Hard work. Listen, hard work. Work hard, and at some point, your hard work will work hard for you.
Alex Burch: Exactly.
Chris Davis: Right? I mean, that’s what automation’s all about. You put it in place, and at some [00:31:00] time, once it’s all set up, it will continue to work hard and do the heavy lifting for you. All right, Alex, thank you so much. Until next time.
Alex Burch: Great, I’m excited.
Chris Davis: If you enjoyed this episode of the ActiveCampaign Podcast, visit ActiveCampaign.com/podcast to catch up on any previously recorded episodes that you may have missed. You’ll also be able to subscribe, so that you don’t miss another episode going forward. We’ll be available [00:31:30] on SoundCloud, Google Play, iTunes, and Stitcher Radio. As always, five star reviews are always welcome, leave comments, feedback, share this with as many people as possible, so that we can get the word out, educate people on how to use marketing automation effectively, and increase their email deliverability.