Episode 37: How to Effectively Remove Yourself from Your Business with Janet Kafadar

What happens when you need to step back from your business to focus on something else? Can your business keep running on its own?


Janet Kafadar is an elearning consultant and an online course designer who built up a successful business helping entrepreneurs and small businesses turn their online course ideas into digital reality. But when she decided to remove herself from the day-to-day of her business to focus on her family, she had to make a plan that would allow the work to continue in her absence.
Janet shares how she leveraged ActiveCampaign during the transition to keep “business as usual.” Learn from her story as she reveals how she got started in marketing automation with ActiveCampaign, then used it to grow her business and eventually to keep business going when she decided to step back.
Find Janet online at:

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Chris Davis: Welcome to another episode of the ActiveCampaign podcast. Today, I have with [00:00:30] me a special guest that is going to walk us through her process of removing herself from her business. This is one of those things that we hear often, especially when people start using the term marketing automation a little too loosely nowadays. It’s like, “Are you tired of working on your business, or in your business? What about if your business just ran by itself?” And all of these things. But very rarely do people get insight [00:01:00] on what it actually takes, and what it looks like to be working in your business. Hours and hours and really be able to come out, come a level up and let technology and a few team members run it for you effectively and efficiently.

So today I have Janet Kafadar. Janet, how are you?

Janet Kafadar: I’m good, thank you and thanks for having me, Chris.

Chris Davis: Yes, no problem. And just so everybody knows, let’s go into a [00:01:30] little bit of your background and who you currently serve, Janet.

Janet Kafadar: Cool, yeah. I am an online course designer, and I help my clients create online courses. My clients tend to call me the birthing midwife or course midwife, because I really do help them birth their course ideas and help them get them out of their heads, and actually get it down onto digital paper and out into the world so they can actually help their clients, [00:02:00] and actually bring more money into their business.

So the clients that I serve have taken a little bit of a turn. I consult with organizations, and actually consulting with a not-for-profit at the moment, in helping them create an e-learning platform for their organization. But with that as well, I also help small business, and entrepreneurs as well, either create smaller digital products, [fallowing 00:02:28] how am I going to do that, and how’s it all going to work, [00:02:30] along with creating slightly bigger online courses as well.So those are three different pockets of people that I serve, and how I help them.

Back to my ground, my goodness, I have been doing this for about, oh god … I’ve been in business for about five years. Prior to that I had a first business that just didn’t work. And then I went on this journey to [00:03:00] find out what … went on a journey to work out, “What am I going to do with myself?” I had my son who was pretty young at the time. My first child who was pretty young, and I wanted the flexibility to work from home. I just got burnt out from working for other people. I worked for a small management consultancy, and they were crushing it. They were making so much money, and I got a bit upset. ” [00:03:30] Wait a minute, I am making my boss so much money. How the hell is this working?” I want a slice of that pie. [inaudible 00:03:40] I can do it for myself.

With that, I was working for [inaudible 00:03:43] Consultancy, helping them create training programs, and workshops, and e-learning course, and online courses for government departments. So that’s really where I sunk my teeth into this kind of online learning experience. [00:04:00] So, one, my journey to figure out what I’m going to do, then I stumbled into this world. Online, a different area. I was like, “Oh, I can do this.” But I think the main thing for me was that I bought lots of training programs and courses to understand what I need to do, and I was just shocked at the level of quality. I was like, “You’ve got to be kidding me.” This is so bad. Some of them were great. [00:04:30] Others were really, really poor. And it wasn’t the to do with slides or anything like that, it was more so around the content and how they were teaching, which is their biggest problem that I had. So that actually turned into my business, and helping people actually create a quality learning experience for their students. And that’s brought me to where I am today.

Chris Davis: That’s great, that’s great. It’s leveraging, right? It’s the leveraging of past experiences, and you were exposed to higher quality, or [00:05:00] I would say better formatted content, because that’s what was required of you at the time. And the most successful entrepreneurs that I’m seeing, Janet, are ones that can leverage something that they’ve done, or all of what they’ve done, in the past and just figure out a new area to apply it. Right?

Janet Kafadar: Yes, yeah. Exactly. Exactly right. And if you’re passionate about it, then great. If you’re not, then figure out something else. [00:05:30] But I kind of got a little bit obsessed with that, I suppose because it was my own business, it was my own baby. I got obsessed with figuring out and trying to work out what the best ways to help people create courses. So yeah.

Chris Davis: It’s great. And I feel like it’s so timely. So hats off to you and your vision, because now e-learning is here to stay. Right?

Janet Kafadar: Oh, yeah.

Chris Davis: [00:06:00] It’s not going anywhere. Janet, I remember, I actually got my masters online, and this was around 2006, maybe? I was terrified to do it. It was an amazing opportunity, because the company I was working for paid for all of it. So I couldn’t pass up the opportunity, but my fear was, “Are they going to treat this like a real MBA?” Right? Is this going to be real degree? [00:06:30] Everybody else is going into a university, that I can see, with their book bag, and here I am after work, I’m going home, logging in, I’m in my pajamas and greasy fingers from eating dinner, trying to watch these courses online. I remember that being a struggle for me. I was like, “You know what? This isn’t a real degree.”

And now, here we come, “Oh my goodness.” Maybe Linda was around back then, in a very small capacity, [00:07:00] but now we’ve got all kind of course platforms. And entrepreneurs have, they’ve caught the bug. They want to. They want to build courses, they want to use it to scale their messaging, and get the message out.

Janet Kafadar: Yes. Absolutely. So yeah, I totally agree. And that’s funny, because I still have family members that say to me, “Is that for real? That doesn’t happen, does it? People can’t learn online.” It just is [00:07:30] going to take some time, and a big mindset shift for some people, especially for people who aren’t in that area or in that sector very much.

The organization that I’m working with at the moment is a diabetes organization, and a lot of the health professionals that they have are pretty much nurses, mostly nurses. 85% percent of them are nurses. And so [00:08:00] having to try and shift them to more of an e-learning way of working, and moving them to an e-learning platform to learn about diabetes so that they can be credentialed, is really interesting. I’m in the consulting phase at the moment, and there’s some big issues, the mindset shifts that need to be made there. But yeah, we’re getting there. We’re moving forward that’s the main thing.

Chris Davis: Absolutely. And you know what? The more I think about your previous [00:08:30] experience where you had success and you saw your CEO just making all of this money, and you’re looking at your checkbook, “Wait a minute, [inaudible 00:08:37] doesn’t look like that.” But just knowing your experience, it really makes sense to me how you could even take the approach that you’ve taken to remove yourself from your business, because it’s always been something that you’ve seen modeled? Right?

Janet Kafadar: Yes.

Chris Davis: You were never the person that felt like, “I have to do it all. If I’m not doing it, and my face isn’t [00:09:00] on it, and everybody’s talking about me, then I don’t want to do it.”

Janet Kafadar: Yes. Exactly. I suppose … No, I hold my hand up and give lots of credit to the company that I work for, because I learn so much. And so yes, I suppose the managing director there was really modeling how it can be done. So she was in, if I think about it, she did a lot of the early stage consulting work like I’m doing now, and then the rest was left to the rest of the team [00:09:30] to handle. So yes, it’s pretty much the same thing that I’m doing in my business now.

Chris Davis: Yes, yes. So I just wanted to stress that to our listeners, that the longest path to success is a newly traveled path, everybody. If you can find a way to look at what you’ve done … just because you’ve done it in the corporate world or maybe the non-profit sector or maybe an area that doesn’t directly correlate with, [00:10:00] perhaps, where you desire to go, doesn’t mean that that experience is useless, right? Figure out how to use [crosstalk 00:10:08] that in … and oftentimes, Janet, it’s valuable. Like your experience, and just your eye for quality, and understanding how to formulate your content, in a way, is extremely valuable to this space. Right?

Janet Kafadar: Absolutely.

Chris Davis: Please everybody, leveraged efforts of your own. Look in the [00:10:30] past and see what’s worked well for you, and see what other areas you can apply. It takes a little bit of creativity and courage, but that is the recipe for success. And in that vein, we’ll talk about your success, because what I really like about you and your story is that you are the epitome of removing, getting out of the business without the business … it didn’t miss a beat. Of course there’s a transition, but essentially you were able to transition [00:11:00] from doing to overseeing fairly efficiently with the aid of some tools and some know how.

So let’s talk about that. It’s kind of two faceted for you, right? You’ve got the process of on-boarding clients, and then another process of getting them ready to have their courses built. So, let’s start with your business in bringing in people. What type of processes were in place and how did you go from doing [00:11:30] to not having to do as much?

Janet Kafadar: Yes. There’s actually three stages. There’s where the prospect comes into my pipeline to potentially work with me. So they fill in a form that’s on my website, the ActiveCampaign form, and then I review their responses. If I think that we can work together, then I apply a tag and [00:12:00] their application’s been accepted, and then they go into an automation, receive an email from me, and then starts the prospect pipeline.

If they’re successful and we end up working together, then they go into the new client pipeline, which takes them into receiving the payment and making sure the contracts are all set out. But that stuff is all … all of the tasks related [00:12:30] to that, I put inside of Asana, and my team handles that. They know exactly what they need to do, they have all their templates, they have their standard emails that they send out. That whole process is inside of Asana.

So really, how I use ActiveCampaign with that is that once they get accepted, and we decide to work together, they get sent an email. An email then also gets sent to my assistant inside of ActiveCampaign [00:13:00] and that email says, “Start new on-boarding process for X client,” and then the details are all at the bottom. They know who it’s for, they know what the package is, they know what they’re getting, and then they just start the process, and everything is inside of Asana. So that pretty much removes me from having to do anything.

They also have their follow ups inside of there. If the client hasn’t got back to within four days, go back to them, go and check, they can follow up set up the [Trello 00:13:28] board, all of that stuff. [00:13:30] So that’s the new … on-boarding and new client.

Then the third pipeline that we have is to manage the project for the client without me. I’ll talk to about the two different people that I have on my team, it puts it in a bit more perspective. I have Joseph who manages the administrative side of things. He’s the one that follows up with the client, [00:14:00] and makes sure contracts are sent out. All of that stuff. And then I have Angelo, and does more of the technical set-up and design for the clients. He also manages that relationship as well.

With that, when we’re working on the project, I have about four or five different stages inside of there. There’s [00:14:30] the consulting stage that happens, and that’s pretty much where I do most of the work. I work with the client pretty much for a month or so, and that’s figuring out their course, their messaging, the tools they’re going to use, all of that. Really structuring the course content and figuring all of that out.

Then once that stage is finished and I’ve had all of my calls with them over that four to six week [00:15:00] period, then they get moved into another stage of that pipeline, an email then gets sent to Angelo to start the design process. But inside of there, I have all of the details about the client, and all of the links to the calls that we’ve had are inside of Asana, so he can go back and see whatever needs to be done. And pretty much from that point on, I don’t really do much else. They take care of the rest of it, and everything [00:15:30] is documented. There are videos, there are processes, all inside of Asana.

But each time they move into the different stages … let’s say Angelo’s gone ahead and designed and set everything up, and then he sent it to the client for review, it gets moved to the next stage. I receive and email to say that it’s gone to the client for review, and then I’m looking out to see what’s happening, and overseeing that. [00:16:00] I’m not hands-on, I’m not in there doing anything with them, but obviously they come back to me with any questions and stuff. So those are pretty much the three different stages. I whizzed over those quite quickly, but those are the three different pipelines that I have inside of my business that actually help automate parts of those process.

Chris Davis: Yeah. And a couple things I want to highlight, and we’ll dig into each one, everybody. Don’t-

Janet Kafadar: Okay, cool.

Chris Davis: The listeners, don’t feel like you’re [00:16:30] like, “Oh, wait a minute. Say that again.” One of the things that I just want to make note of, you hear Janet mention a pipeline for prospects and then a pipeline for people after they’ve accepted payment and X, Y, Z, and that’s common for her because she’s used to our CRM. But a lot of people don’t know that you can have multiple pipelines in ActiveCampaign. Most traditional CRMs have one pipeline, one global pipeline [00:17:00] for all of their contacts. But that’s not the case in ActiveCampaign. You can have multiple pipelines and multiple stages within those pipelines, then to take it a step further, you can move contacts, deals, from one pipeline to the other. So this dynamic flow, that’ll help you understand when Janet’s talking about, “They start in this pipeline, then they move to this pipeline.”

So that’s one thing. And the other thing is this is, why I was really excited, most people haven’t really thought [00:17:30] about how to use ActiveCampaign synchronously with project management software, right? A lot of our users were either try to turn our deal CRM into a project management tool, or they’ll just misuse tasks and everything. And then they end up frustrated. But remember, ActiveCampaign, we want to give you the core of all of the elements that you need as far as marketing automation, and managing [00:18:00] your contacts, and overseeing the overall flow. But we also want you to be able to use other more powerful project management tools, like Asana, like a Trello, or Project PWM, I don’t know what they’re called. Just all kind of project management tools, right?

That’s what I see in you, Janet. You were like, “You know what? Let me use ActiveCampaign for the overall process.” Right? “At this stage, these [00:18:30] tasks need to be done, but these tasks are going to be handled and managed in my project management software.” And in order to sync the two, instead of trying to have it integrated where Asana in some ways are creating tasks, and ActiveCampaign, and you’re marking them “Solved,” and done in ActiveCampaign and they’re going back. That seems like just a lot of muddy work. Why not-

Janet Kafadar: That’s a whole mess. Yeah.

Chris Davis: Yeah, right? Why not send an internal [00:19:00] notification to the team member at the appropriate time for them to go and handle all of the tasks. And when they’re done, they jump back into ActiveCampaign and move them on to the next stage.

Janet Kafadar: Yeah. Exactly right. And it was funny, because a few years back I was talking to a good friend of mine who’s a massive [Ontraport 00:19:22] fan, at that time I was using MailChimp, she’s like, “Oh, you should move over to Ontraport,” and blah, blah. I was like, “Oh, I don’t know. That price [00:19:30] tag is expensive. I don’t know.” So I was using MailChimp at the time, so jumping from that to moving to something more robust in that space, I was like, “I don’t know. I’m just going to take it one step at a time. Let me just sort out my segments and stuff.” Which is really why I decided to move over to ActiveCampaign. I just wanted to be able to better segment my list, and better be able to talk to my prospects. And that was it.

Once [00:20:00] I got in there, I was like, “Holy balls. I can’t believe this. This is amazing.” I was actually blown away. One thing I do want to stress is that that was my starting point. That was the first thing I wanted to do. I just wanted to better segment my list, and better understand how I can talk to different groups of people about different things. Then it just grew from there.

I literally just started one stage at a time. I had one lady [00:20:30] in a Facebook group yesterday ask me about how long it took me to set up all of this, and we’re talking about a different sales funnel, and I said, “It took me about eight months.” So don’t believe the rubbish that you can do it overnight. No, it took me about eight months to set it up start to finish, test it, tweak it, make it better, set up the right emails. It took time. So, yeah, it doesn’t happen overnight.

Chris Davis: Yeah. And what’s good about that, [00:21:00] when you look at the elements of a successful business, the most common element no matter who you talk to is the business owner knows exactly what needs to be done. Right? You knew the processes. You knew the steps, you had it all outlined and mapped out, because you’ve done it so many times.

Janet Kafadar: Yeah, I was doing it.

Chris Davis: Yeah.

Janet Kafadar: I was doing it.

Chris Davis: For a lot of people, the reason why they can’t leverage more of automation [00:21:30] is because they just haven’t done something enough to know what they’re doing well enough, right? So they’re trying to let the tool fill in for the gaps that only time and experience can provide. But when you have somebody like yourself, who’s had time and experience, and you’re like, “Listen … ” If I sat down with you, Janet, we’re having coffee somewhere, and I was like, “So Janet, walk me through your process.” You could close your eyes and just look [00:22:00] at all of your processes play, and you would just name them off. “Okay, so when this happens they need to do this.” It would just flow.

Janet Kafadar: And then you’ll leave with your eyes boggled.

Chris Davis: Right. I was like, “Okay. Alright. Well, good luck with that, Janet.” But since you’re able to clearly outline everything that needs to be done, that’s what positions you to be able to grow with ActiveCampaign. And another thing is, I love that you mention, ” [00:22:30] Listen, when I was coming to ActiveCampaign, my first objective was just segment better. I wanted to be able to talk to people more personalized.” And a lot of times, people who get started, they try to do everything. They see the automation and say, “Oh, I need to build five automations. Maybe I need to have ten lists, and I need to create all of these tags.” No, no, no, no, no. Right?

Janet Kafadar: No, no.

Chris Davis: Come into the platform-

Janet Kafadar: Don’t do it.

Chris Davis: Yeah. Establish [00:23:00] your quick win, right? For you it was like, “Listen, I want to segment. So what do I need to learn to figure out how to segment.” Once you get your first accomplishment, it’s contagious. Then you start building upon that and more and more. Then before you know it you’re like, “Oh my gosh, I’m in the deal CRM automating flows from my project management software.”

Janet Kafadar: Yes. Yeah, it was quite interesting that first few months. Luckily my assistant … he [00:23:30] just got it. His brain is so wired for logic type things. Mine is a little bit, but I do get a headache after a while. When I would say to him, “This is what I want to do. Is that possible?” And I would take a look as well. I’m like, “Oh, I’ve had a look, is that the right thing to do?” But he had more of the detail. He got it straight away, so that really did help. But if you don’t have someone that’s not very good with ActiveCampaign, [00:24:00] the resources that you guys have really helped me out. I listened to a lot of the live calls. They weren’t live for me, because they’re in the middle of the night. But I listened to the replays of the calls, and how I could better do the engagement and the scoring, and I was like, “Oh, okay.”

And I literally just took it one step at a time. If I do all of them I’m going to get totally overwhelmed. So I just did one at a time, and just laid them in. It’s helped, it’s [00:24:30] helped. But I don’t have … really, if you went into my ActiveCampaign, it’s not that crazy. I really try and keep things simple. I don’t have very many automations. Keep it really streamlined, because otherwise it can get … because it’s so powerful. You can seriously get overwhelmed and then think, “Oh my god,” and just run for the hills. “I can’t do this anymore.”

Chris Davis: Yeah, right? It’s like playing with a butter knife and chainsaw. Yes, I can chop down a tree, but I can also take off some limbs [00:25:00] if I’m not careful. I didn’t have those problems when I had the butter knife.

Janet Kafadar: That’s right.

Chris Davis: Much power comes much responsibility. What another key here is we’re talking about how to remove yourself safely. I should use the word safely, remove yourself safely from your business. Another thing that I see that you did, Janet, was you stayed true to who you are. Right? You knew, “Listen, I can get this logic to a point, and [00:25:30] then my brain is done. So let me find someone who can take this logic further than I can.” Right? That’s another problem I see with a lot of people trying to do this effectively, they’re just trying to do too much. They’re trying to do things … and for whatever reason there’s some shame that they feel. For some reason, they feel like, “No, I should be able to do this better.” And it’s like, “No-“

Janet Kafadar: No shame for me. No shame.

Chris Davis: No shame, right?

Janet Kafadar: No shame. I’m okay. [00:26:00] I would rather have someone helping. I think for me it is more so, I need to know how it works. I don’t want someone pulling the wool over my eyes. I need to know how it works, and have a good understanding of each area, so that when I am talking to someone, I know what I want, so that they’re not directing me as to what I should do. I know that may sound a little bit harsh, but I know what I want, I know how my business runs, and I’m the best person to, obviously, do that. So it was [00:26:30] important that I had a really good idea of how it worked, got in the trenches, set things up myself, broke things. I remember saying on my first automation, sending all my emails at the same time, I was like, “Oh, I’ve got to add a wait there.” All of that stuff, and it helped me to understand so when I did get someone in to help me, just with the little things and the deeper segmenting stuff that just really did hurt my head, then it was easier.

Chris Davis: Yeah. And [00:27:00] you became a responsible manager. You became a responsible manager of the process by understanding enough about the tool and how it works. So of course, another key. These are all keys, everybody. I’m pointing them out for a reason, so that as you’re listening you can jot them down. Because it’s not like it’s magic, what Janet has done, but it definitely is a process. She just alluded to, “Listen, it took about nine months for me.” [00:27:30] Right? She had to know exactly what she was doing. She knew what processes could be automated, what processes are going to take manual input. So if they take manual input, I’ll use automation to facilitate that manual input. And then I’m being true to myself. I’m like, “Hey, look, alright, we got to this point where I can do this much, but I need a little more and I am not the one to do it. So let me get somebody who can help take [00:28:00] over that.”

It’s just knowing all of the pieces … that is every business owner’s responsibility. You are not off the hook for that. You need to know your business and what’s required so that, as I mentioned, you could be a responsible manager of the entire process. Now Janet, was there a point in any time in these stages that you were doing things? You’re in the business doing it, and something happened and you’re like, “You know [00:28:30] what? I can’t be the one doing this?” Not just from the perspective as I can’t do it, but if it keeps relying on me doing it I don’t this is going to work. Was there ever a point in time where you had that experience?

Janet Kafadar: Yeah. Yes. The real kick for me was that I fell pregnant with my third child. Up until that point, I had been doing it all myself or with my assistant that [00:29:00] would help out a few hours here and there. But pretty much I was the one doing everything. Doing the on-boarding, obviously doing the calls, doing the consulting work, doing the actual implementation of everything. And it got to a point where I was like, “Okay, well, I am pregnant now, so that means I can’t do all of that.” I physically can’t do it, and I want to be there to look after my baby, I want to take some [00:29:30] time off, and so I need to figure out a way for me to be able to do that.

I have to figure out what I was going to do, and how I was going to go about doing that. So really just setting all the processes up. Actually, my second assistant didn’t come in until after I’d had my baby. So up until that point it was just me and my other assistant, Joseph, just doing the work between us. [00:30:00] But it worked well. It was fine. It worked really well. And that’s just setting up all of those processes. I did it bit by bit. Started with the prospect pipeline first, and what I wanted that to look like, and when I need to be speaking to them, and what Joseph needs to do if they haven’t booked in a call. We kept seeing little gaps here and there, and then we’d put in another email there so that the client would follow up. [00:30:30] He managed all of that stuff. It’s a little bit more complicated. So it was just bit by bit.

Then we went through and did the whole on-boarding process. What I normally do, and what he needs to do. So I was teaching him, “This is the process, this is the contract for these three different types of packages, and this what you need to put in this part.” It became quite granular. I had to go into so much detail, and really write things [00:31:00] out, but also use ActiveCampaign to help, as we said, facilitate that process to keep it moving along. Or otherwise, what I noticed was, things would get stuck and then they would stop with me. And then I was like, “Oh, what is he waiting on again?” And then I would have to go in and have a look. He’s waiting for me to give feedback so that he can go and pass it on to the client. I’m like, “Oh, right. That’s not going to work.” There needs to be a trigger to me to go and have a look at that, check it over, make [00:31:30] sure I’m happy with it, and then once I add a tag to the client’s name, then he’ll go off and send it to the client for approval.

It’s those little things that we noticed were missing in the process, and that we just needed to add, and just really lay out for us as a team so that we all worked better together. We’re still … To this day, it’s still changing, still updating it, but it’s definitely running a lot smoother. And I [00:32:00] had my baby, I took about three, four months off, I went to Europe for six weeks with my family on holiday, my team managed everything. At that time, we weren’t taking on any new clients, all that was left was just the wrapping up of projects and they handled all of the implementation side of things. So, yeah, that was really the kicker behind actually removing myself from the business, because I had to. There really wasn’t any other choice.

Chris Davis: That’s it.

Janet Kafadar: But I needed to [00:32:30] keep it going.

Chris Davis: That is great. Janet, oh, there is so much good stuff. Good stuff there. I just want to encourage everybody, remember this happened over time, and you don’t have to wait until you’re pregnant with child to do this. You can use any event. You can use any event in your life. Maybe the event is the day of the week. “Hey, look, this is the last Tuesday that I’m [00:33:00] going to operate my business like it is.” Whatever that is, do it, take the time, sit back, document what you’re doing so that you can start explaining it.

And when I say explaining it, I mean explaining it to ActiveCampaign as well. Many of you may not be starting with a team member, or someone on staff. You have to explain to ActiveCampaign what you’re doing. So treat ActiveCampaign as your first employee. And there’s not one employee that starts [00:33:30] a job without a description. Right? Every time you get hired, it’s like, “Hey, this is what I need you to do today.” So if you can’t tell somebody, if you can’t look at ActiveCampaign and say, “Okay, your first name is Active last name Campaign,” and treat it like an individual and say, “Okay, this is your job. This is what I need you to do.” If you can’t do that, then you need to go back.

Take a step back. Go back to the drawing board. Maybe you need to serve a little longer. Maybe you need to get some more clients to really iron out your processes. [00:34:00] And then when you do, like Janet mentioned, it’s a reiterative process. It’s not like you’re going to get it down once and be like, “Good. It’s done.” As you heard, she was like, “Oh, wait a minute. How did that get stuck? I thought you had everything you needed. Let me make this tweak, let me make this adjustment.”

So the last thing, Janet, real quick, I know that this was a lot. You were recording videos, you’re probably taking screenshots of things, or typing stuff out, where did [00:34:30] you find the motivation to keep going through it all?

Janet Kafadar: God, that’s a good question. I think the motivation for me is that I didn’t want to close my business down. I’d already worked so hard to get it to where it was, and I love it. It wasn’t that I was like, “Well, I’m just going to take a back seat. I’m just going to leave it, pick it up in a couple of months.” I could have done that, and there’s nothing wrong with that. [00:35:00] I could have said to my clients, “You know, I might be able to finish it in a couple of months, but you’re going to have to wait until I come back.” And that’s just not how I am. So, it was important for me that I deliver on the work that I said I was going to deliver for them.

I think the motivation also was that I just love it, and I’d worked so hard to get it to where it was, and I felt that it just needed a little bit more. I just couldn’t do everything. [00:35:30] It needed a tool to help me do that when I realized … Obviously what ActiveCampaign can do, but then I actually had to think about, “Oh, well, this is how I can use it in my business.” It’s not just an email marketing tool. It does so much more. Then that’s what helped to figure that out. Because if I didn’t have ActiveCampaign there’s no way I’d be able to even do that.

It’s alright, I could have all the processes in Asana, yeah, great. [00:36:00] But then how’s my team going to talk to each other to know what’s happening at what stage? So I really do see ActiveCampaign as integral of that puzzle, because without it, without my team, without me, without Asana, without the four different areas working together, ActiveCampaign glues us all in one place so that it actually keeps moving forward.

Chris Davis: Yeah, that’s it. I mean, wow. Just the motivation [00:36:30] from the hard work of the past, right? We all have that. Or at least we all should have that. I just have to say, I can’t stress enough how valuable everything that you’re doing and you have done for you are business is, because it tells the true story. There was no overnight success. You had years before you even had your business of serving and learning. And then when you get in your [00:37:00] business, you never got complacent. You never settled for, “Well, maybe this is where cap out. I’ll just keep doing this and have to work, now my kids will be without their mom for prolonged periods of time and that’s just what it is as a business owner.” No. Right? You created it. You created what you wanted to be as a reality for you, and you used the tools. You used the proper tools, the tools available at your disposal to do so.

Janet Kafadar: That’s right.

Chris Davis: [00:37:30] Janet, thank you so much.

Janet Kafadar: That just wasn’t my reality. Sorry. It was really important for me to be around for my newborn and for my family, because it’s a whole big change. We’ve got another child coming in the mix. I knew it was going to be difficult in my family life, so I needed to make sure that the business was taken care of and that I knew that, “Okay, that’s all good. I can focus in on my family and [00:38:00] being there to make sure that we have a strong unit.” Because without strong family unit, obviously, everything else falls to pieces. So that was a really big driving force for me as well.

Chris Davis: Yeah, and personally for me, that’s why this episode is so important, is because when you do, you get married, to have a family, you build something great, and then in the building process you get busy with everything that it requires to keep it great. [00:38:30] To keep it going. And it’s so easy to let all of those things take a back seat. So a lot of times, it’s an approach that we need to change. That doesn’t have to be your reality that, “Hey look, you knew that when I started my business, we signed up for working 80 hours a week.” Right? “You knew [crosstalk 00:38:51] you weren’t going to be able to see me. That’s part of being an entrepreneur.” It does not have to be that way at all. You do not have to subscribe [00:39:00] to that way of thinking or operating.

And thank you, Janet, for sharing your story, because I know it inspired me and I hope that inspires others to sit back and say, “You know what? I don’t have to do this all. I have to know what needs to be done, yes. But I don’t have to do it. I have employees. I have one employee called ActiveCampaign, I have another employee called X, Y, Z.” I’m going to use these things to my disposal and for my advantage [00:39:30] in it also.

Janet, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, your experience, and everything that you’re doing internal to your business. I really wanted to just stay internal. How easy is it to go talk about, “Hey, Janet, I see you’ve got an Ultimate Course Creation Checklist on your website. Tell us about that.” Right? That’s good. I don’t want to diminish that, but behind the scenes is how you remove yourself.

Janet Kafadar: Yes. Yeah, exactly right.

Chris Davis: Those processes are what needs the automation to remove yourself effectively from your [00:40:00] business.

Janet, how can people find out more about you and connect deeper with you?

Janet Kafadar: Yes. So you can head over to my website, janetkafadar.com. And you can also find me everywhere online, but you can also find me on my YouTube channel Course Created TV. If you just type in Janet Kafadar, you’ll see my name pop up. I have lots of tutorials on there that I post, [00:40:30] weekly videos, how-to tutorials, tech tools that you can use to help you create your online course. So you can find me there.

Chris Davis: Great, great. All of those links, everybody, will be in the show notes, so don’t worry about trying to scribble it down really fast. They’ll be in the show notes for you to click, engage, and learn. Janet, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much for being on the ActiveCampaign podcast, we really appreciate it.

Janet Kafadar: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Bye.

Chris Davis: [00:41:00] Another episode. Did you not enjoy listening to how Janet removed herself from her business? I thought this one was especially important, because like I mentioned in the intro, this is often spoken about but very rarely clarified exactly how it happens. A lot of you are entrenched in your business, and just one day away means that maybe you don’t provide food for your family [00:41:30] that day. Or revenue tanks in a way that it causes you to work extra in overdrive for the next two weeks just to get back to zero.

There is a way to do this. It’s not overnight. It does take time. But listening to this podcast I hope you got a clear visual of exactly what needs to take place beyond knowing what you’re doing. So serving a particular industry enough to nail your processes down, being able to well document those processes, then translate that [00:42:00] documentation or communicate that documentation clearly to ActiveCampaign as your employee, or someone else. Let ActiveCampaign be the facilitator in all of that to aid you in not dropping any balls and not leaving any holes uncovered. Janet was masterful at how she did it, and I really do want you to take what she’s done and implement it in your business. It’s the back end processes, everybody. I think a lot of times in automation, we’re too [00:42:30] focused on the front end. We’re too focused on the landing pages, the website, and we don’t pay enough attention to the internal processes, because that is where our time is freed up. I think Janet explained that so well.

This is the ActiveCampaign podcast. If you are listening for the first time, please subscribe. Please, please, please subscribe. Not because I want more subscribers. I want you all to get the word out, because I know you know someone who needs to remove themselves from their business. [00:43:00] I know you do. So spread the word. You can do that by subscribing to make sure you’re getting a notification every time a new episode comes out. You can do so in iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, SoundCloud. You can do it on your mobile, your desktop, your tablet, whatever device you choose.

And if you are a subscriber and you’ve been listening for a while, or listening for your first time, leave us a five star rating and a comment. That also helps get the word out [00:43:30] so that more business owners can learn, not just about ActiveCampaign, but marketing automation and how to do it effectively. How to scale their business safely. Alright?

Last but not least, activecampaign.com/learn is the education center. That’s all your guided content. The videos that Janet mentioned that she watched are office hours replays. That’s at activecampaign.com/learn. All of that content is there free for you. Free [00:44:00] for you at our disposal for you. If at any point you’re stuck in your journey, and you need help, you need to talk to somebody, we have one on ones available for you. Activecampaign.com/training. We are committed to your success, so use our resources for your benefit.

This is the ActiveCampaign podcast. The small business podcast to help you scale and propel your business with automation. I’ll see you on the next episode.