Episode 34: Membership Series Part 3: Thinking Beyond Membership Sites with Jack Arturo

The third and final episode in our membership site series, exploring why we should be thinking differently about membership sites, and highlighting the tools to help you build a more dynamic, powerful community around your content.


Jack Arturo used the expertise he developed over more than 10 years as a WordPress developer to create WP Fusion, a plugin that promotes effortless integration between WordPress and CRMs such as ActiveCampaign. Listen in on his conversation with Chris Davis to learn more about using WP Fusion with ActiveCampaign to build a strong membership site and streamline the sharing of data across your marketing stack.
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Chris Davis: Welcome to another episode of the ActiveCampaign podcast. This is part three [00:00:30] of our membership series where I’m going over the companies and the people behind the tools, the companies that offer membership solutions for ActiveCampaign. I’ve used the term “next generation membership sites” and that’s because we’re going beyond just being able to set levels, silver, gold and bronze, in attaching content to those levels, and we’ve moved to this next generation where it’s more dynamic. We’re [00:01:00] looking at our CRM and looking at the tags, the information that’s on the CRM, and we’re sending that information to our membership site and/or website, and allowing for a more dynamic experience, so who I have with me today is the creator of WP Fusion, Jack Arturo. Jack, how are you doing today?

Jack Arturo: I’m great, Chris, how’re you?

Chris Davis: I’m excited, like always. It’s always [00:01:30] good to talk to people behind the tools, behind the brands. The brains, for lack of a better term, so I wanted to have you on and just kind of introduce you to our listeners, talk a little bit about your history, learn more about WP Fusion. Jack, where did you come from, man?

Jack Arturo: Well, I never really did too well working for other people. I’ve always been sort of an entrepreneur and [00:02:00] I’ve been building websites probably about 15 years. I started WordPress about 10 years ago and I kind of followed the typical path of [inaudible 00:02:09] press developers would build simple sites for people and as I got better at it, we’d build sites with increasing complexity, and then got into doing plugin development for niche areas, car dealerships and underflow heating installers and that kind of thing. [00:02:30] One-off plugin development projects, but what I really wanted to do was to be able to come up with a product that a lot of people could use, because obviously if you’re building something just for one person, you do it and it’s done, but if you’re building something for a thousand people, you get to work on it over several years, you get to make it better and better and better, and then each improvement you make obviously affects everybody who’s purchased and customers going forward.

That was kind of the dream, [00:03:00] and I did a couple of commercial plugins over the years, kind of small fry stuff that did okay, but then a couple years ago I had a client who … At this point I’d done a fair deal of one-off API integration stuff at Fusion Soft and ActiveCampaign so I kind of knew how it worked. I had a client who had a membership site using a plugin called User Pro which has sense kind of gone downhill. [00:03:30] I don’t recommend it, but he just needed [inaudible 00:03:33] so that whenever somebody registered there, the user would be added as a contact in the CRM and that just was not a possibility at the time.

We kind of just did a one-off API integration and it worked great and there were like two or three other people using User Pro who were like, “Well yeah, can I get a copy of that as well?” We thought, “Well yeah, let’s try and offer this for sale” and [00:04:00] a few weeks later somebody comes along and they say, “Well, yes, this is exactly what I need but I’m not using User Pro, I’m using Ultimate Member and I want new user registrations from there to be able to go out to my CRM” and inevitably somebody said, “Well yeah, I’m using Blue Commerce and I’d like when people purchase, I’d like all those details to go into the CRM and I’d like for them to be tagged with whatever they purchased.” It’s just kind of continued like that. Every month or two somebody comes [00:04:30] to us with a system that they’re using already that they’d like to [inaudible 00:04:37] we’ve kind of built the plugin.

We wrote the whole thing about a year ago so it’s really modular and easy for us to just drop in a new integration for a new plugin, and if you’re not running that plugin on your site, WP Fusion doesn’t load that part of it. It doesn’t slow things down at all, so we’re able to offer integrations but it really only activates itself for what features you’re using, so it keeps it very lean [00:05:00] and fast and light weight and just basically adds options to whatever [inaudible 00:05:04] of our integrations you happen to have installed.

Chris Davis: What I liked about what I learned about WP Fusion and how you were explaining to me how it works, you all take a similar approach that we do at ActiveCampaign and that’s like, “Look, we’re not trying to be the best at everything. We’re not trying to be your all in one marketing automation platform that takes purchases, offers your affiliate [00:05:30] center, does this, does that, right?” We want you to use the tools that are best at that. Like you mentioned [Wu 00:05:37] Commerce. If you’re using Wu Commerce and Wu Subscriptions, yes, use that and just tie it into ActiveCampaign.

Jack Arturo: Exactly. There’s some other similar plugins out there. Then they include things like they have their own settings for creating membership levels and setting your renewal pay amounts and [00:06:00] stuff like that, but we don’t want to include that because a lot of customers may not need it. They may already have an existing solution and also we can’t pretend to try to do it better than Wu Commerce is already doing it, or Paid Memberships Pro. We let those guys focus on doing what they do best and then our core focus is just making it really seamless and easy to connect what you’re already doing on WordPress to your campaign.

Chris Davis: Yeah, so for listeners, jus to kind of [00:06:30] make sure it makes sense, and I really appreciate this approach, Jack. Just imagine if you’re using New Memberhsip Pro, okay?

Jack Arturo: Yeah, sure, yes.

Chris Davis: New Membership Pro allows you to sell memberships. Maybe they have integrated a payment process or a whatnot, but you’re happy with this. You’re using New Membership Pro and you’re selling memberships on your WordPress site, and you’re like, “You know what? I wish I could send this data [00:07:00] over to ActiveCampaign,” and when something changes in ActiveCampaign, I want it to change on the WordPress side, and if something changes on the WordPress side, I wish it would change on the ActiveCampaign side. I need them in sync. I don’t want to leave my membership plugin. I’m satisfied, right?

Jack Arturo: Exactly.

Chris Davis: Like, oh my gosh, I hear all of these other solutions, but my setup is working, but I do want to leverage some more power out of ActiveCampaign. Essentially you would [00:07:30] find WP Fusion and it would be heaven for you, right?

Jack Arturo: Exactly.

Chris Davis: Because they don’t have to leave their current membership platform, their current payment processor, and they don’t have to do anything with their setup.

Jack Arturo: Exactly, yeah, that would be seamless, and even it’s not just for people who already have an existing setup. If you’re looking to create a brand new membership system, you can really use just WP Fusion with ActiveCampaign and no other plugins. [00:08:00] We don’t force you into creating membership levels, but we base everything in the system around tags, so your tag is essentially membership level, so you can have it that you apply a tag like “access to premium content,” and you apply that tag in ActiveCampaign, that tag will be associated with the user’s account in WordPress and we let you restrict any content on your site by [inaudible 00:08:26] so you can create a member’s only area and say the member has to have [00:08:30] the premium member tag to view this, and that in itself is a very, very simple membership system, and then as you grow with your brand new membership site, say you want to start charging for memberships, then you can throw in Wu Commerce and that just integrates seamlessly. You don’t have to do anything extra.

Then maybe you want to start doing recurring billing. You throw Wu Commerce subscriptions on top of that and now you’ve got recurring billing. Even for people who don’t have any kind of membership set up already, it’s really easy to start with something [00:09:00] very basic. Instead of having to figure out the whole strategy from the beginning, and then because we connect with so many different moving parts, membership systems, learning systems, contact forms, affiliate systems like Affiliate WP, you can add on those pieces as your needs grow and become more complex.

Chris Davis: Yeah, and what I like about it is you’re integrated so deeply with the WordPress ecosystem that yeah, you can start thinking beyond membership sites, right? Though this is [00:09:30] a membership series, but you mentioned Affiliate WP. You may want to sync information from another plugin that you’re using with WordPress with your active campaign account, and with your plugin, you can do that.

Jack Arturo: Yeah, or another example, you may have just a lead form, a contact for on your site. Gravity forms, for example, and it might just be, “Fill out this form and provide some information about yourself [00:10:00] to get a free download,” and they might say, “My favorite color is blue and I work in the retail industry.” Well, that, WP Fusion lets you add them to ActiveCampaign with that data and also tag them based on their industry and their interest, so of course right away in ActiveCampaign, you can put them into lists and [inaudible 00:10:16] automations based on their interests, but also that information is passed back to your site, so you can, for example, customize your home page depending on the information they provide in that form. You can show a teaser add to a premium product [00:10:30] you’re trying to sell because they have the tag that was applied in that initial lead form.

Chris Davis: Yes, yes, and what I love about this approach, your approach to it, and the idea behind it, is you essentially turn your website, your WordPress site, into your data collection center, right?

Jack Arturo: Yeah, yeah.

Chris Davis: Use whatever plugin you want, whatever means you would like to collect data. As soon as it gets in WordPress, we don’t care how it gets in WordPress, [00:11:00] which is the freedom. That’s the freedom that you provide. Once it’s in WordPress, it’s gonna sync. WP Fusion’s gonna sync it to your CRM in ActiveCampaign and do with it what you will with the data once it gets in there.

Jack Arturo: Yeah, and then we really focus on the tools we give you within WordPress are very simple. There’s no [drip 00:11:20] email futures in WP Fusion or anything like that. We just kinda say, “How do you want this to link with ActiveCampaign? How do you want ActiveCampaign to link [00:11:30] back to this?” Then everything that’s automated on your WordPress site, you can do within the marketing automation tools in ActiveCampaign, which again is another example of, “We couldn’t have done it better than you guys so we just …” We [inaudible 00:11:44] customer do all their automation stuff in ActiveCampaign knowing that it will be reflected back in WordPress.

Chris Davis: Yes, absolutely, and real quick, I want to moonwalk a bit and go back to something you mention, and I just want to highlight, I’ve been making sure [00:12:00] I highlight this throughout this series, and that’s the fact that, Jack, it’s not like you just came on the scene and had this brilliant idea. “Hey, I’m gonna code, so now I built this plugin and now I’m rich,” you know? You had a path that started in web development, right?

Jack Arturo: Right.

Chris Davis: For years. You learned WordPress. You learned the ins and out. You started creating custom solutions, so though WP Fusion is three years old now, is it? Or is [00:12:30] it?

Jack Arturo: Yeah, just about three.

Chris Davis: Yeah. Though WP Fusion is three years old, the expertise of the person behind it expands way beyond that, right?

Jack Arturo: Yeah, and I think that’s a good [inaudible 00:12:43] too because the couple of other membership to ActiveCampaign plugins in the field, they kind of got their start in Infusion Soft and they get started with sort of a marketing automation [inaudible 00:12:56] and then their membership solutions were kind of … It’s [00:13:00] kind of the Infusion Soft first and then they built a WordPress plugin to help bring Infusion Soft to WordPress, whereas we’re kind of coming at it from a WordPress first standpoint. It’s very developer friendly. It’s very sensible. We try and fully own what’s going on on WordPress and then connect that out to ActiveCampaign.

Chris Davis: Absolutely, and even the choice to go deep in the WordPress ecosystem years ago shows [00:13:30] your vision, right? For those of you that are listening and may not be aware of WordPress, it’s a content management system. It’s free, open source software that powers millions, maybe even billions now, of websites on the web. It is a growing community, isn’t going anywhere. I don’t build any websites on anything but WordPress and it’s because of this very reason. You have developers like Jack who can take their expertise and create [00:14:00] solutions for you at a much cheaper cost than it would if you had to hire Jack individually.

Jack Arturo: Yeah, and there are problems with WordPress. It’s dated. You can get more fancy and faster systems, but that’s the thing. Right now Automatic, the company behind WordPress, is doing their “push for 50” program, so they want 50 percent of all new websites to be WordPress powered.

Chris Davis: Wow.

Jack Arturo: Even if it’s not the best system in the world, that’s what you get when [00:14:30] 50 percent of new sites are running WordPress. You know it’s being rigorously checked for security, for performance, and you have this massive ecosystem of plugins that are available to you, that you just wouldn’t get if you were going with either a site built from scratch or a smaller CMS system like [Druple 00:14:50] or [Jumla 00:14:51] or whatever.

Chris Davis: Yeah, sure, sure. Now, when we talk about your platform specifically and your user group, your user [00:15:00] base, what are you finding are some of the top uses, the top success stories of how your customers are using the platform?

Jack Arturo: Generally I’d say the vast majority of people are running membership sites tied to online learning platforms. It used to be only Learn Dash and now we’re seeing Lifter LMS really rise up in the ecosystem, but I get some really interesting ones too. I [00:15:30] have a client I’ve done some custom work for and they’re kind of a network of modular home builders in the states, so they have listings for every modular home plan available and then they connect potential customers with builders in their area who can build a modular home, and they used WP Fusion to … when a user comes to their site and signs up, it detects the user’s location via their browser and then when it sends that out to the CRM, it automatically assigns [00:16:00] the user a sales rep based on their geographic location. WP Fusion tracks every home plan that they’ve viewed, so that goes into their CRM record.

Chris Davis: Wow.

Jack Arturo: It knows their … They fill out a questionnaire like, “When do you plan to build? The next three months, the next six months, the next three years,” so a sales rep automatically gets an email saying … They’ve got maybe 300 sales reps … “That a customer in your geographical area has just signed up. They’ve looked at these home plans. They’ve answered this on the questionnaire [00:16:30] and here’s their phone number and email address,” so the customer can get a response back from a rep in their zip code basically, quite quickly, and the rep already knows what they’re interested in and when they plan to buy and what their plans are, and that’s helped massively increasing convergence for them and also making a better experience for the end user, because you’re not kind of getting some generic reply. You’re actually getting somebody talking to you from your area who knows the ins and outs of the construction industry in your area [00:17:00] and who knows what you’ve looked at and what you’re interested in as you’re browsing the site.

Chris Davis: Yeah, and you know, while you’re saying that, I just realized this, and maybe we’ve been kind of speaking around it. The light bulb just went off for me, but all of this functionality can happen without the membership portion set up, right?

Jack Arturo: Exactly, yeah. Yeah.

Chris Davis: Somebody filling out a form in a geographic location, that’s huge.

Jack Arturo: That’s why we’re not a specifically membership [00:17:30] plugin. I’d say the vast majority of people use it for memberships but it’s really just if you want to connect WordPress to ActiveCampaign, then we’re the solution, and that doesn’t have to be membership. It can be like I describe, connecting customers with sales reps or really anything you could imagine.

Chris Davis: I love it because there are so many … With WordPress, the good, the bad and the ugly, right? Is that, you know, people are using all types of plugins, so there’s not really a standard contact form plugin, [00:18:00] right? There’s not really a standard …

Jack Arturo: Right.

Chris Davis: … Anything plugin. You have multiple solutions but with a plugin like WP Fusion, it really doesn’t matter what contact form they’re using.

Jack Arturo: No, exactly.

Chris Davis: Right? If it’s maybe a smaller company that they just really like their platform and they’re going, they’re saying, “Oh, they don’t integrate with [Zapier 00:18:23] and I just wish somehow I could pass this information to ActiveCampaign,” well now they have a way.

Jack Arturo: [00:18:30] Yeah, and like I said, if we don’t currently support that specific thing, the nature of the plugin is it’s really easy to add that, so like I was saying, sometimes every couple of weeks we add a new plugin integration because the customer comes and says, “Yeah, this is working great, but I need to know after somebody,” for example if a popup opens, if somebody dismisses the popup or clicks the link in the popup, we’ll ad that in for them, so yeah, it’s very flexible and extensible.

Chris Davis: [00:19:00] Yeah, so this is … it’s becoming very clear. I hope it is for you listeners. If you’re running a WordPress website and you’re thinking pre-membership and post-membership in all of the functionality in between, WP Fusion starts to really separate itself.

Jack Arturo: Right, exactly.

Chris Davis: Yeah, yeah. Man, wow, that’s great. Now, Jack, tell me this. You had to have seen [00:19:30] an opportunity to go down a particular path like maybe go straight membership. What was it in you and in your vision for the company that said, “You know what? Let them do that. This is our space. Let’s stay in our lane and let’s just really strengthen where we’re at and dominate.”

Jack Arturo: Yeah, and I think that’s where having a WordPress background helps, because in the WordPress space, when you’re building [00:20:00] a site, you start and it’s really just a blog and then you add the plugins that you need to achieve what you’re trying to do. A well made plugin just does what it says it’s going to do. It doesn’t offer features you’re not gonna use, so Wu Commerce, for example, lets you sell stuff. It doesn’t try and be an affiliate system. It doesn’t and be a membership system. You can add that on with additional plugins but a good plugin just kind of focuses on one core competency. I was looking at that [00:20:30] and looking at existing solutions for connecting the CRMs and all of them were kind of bundling in all of this stuff that we might not necessarily need or the end user might not necessarily need, and why include features to add overhead when half of your customers aren’t going to use them?

We thought the core focus should really just be, “Let’s connect WordPress to these CRM systems as best as possible and then let the user choose what kind of membership platform or eCommerce platform or contact form or whatever [00:21:00] it might be that works best for them.

Chris Davis: Yeah, that’s great, and you’re essentially living what I could extrapolate, I’ll project that this is the developer’s dream, right?

Jack Arturo: Yeah.

Chris Davis: As I’m building online, at some point I feel like every developer is better off if they can get that one project, right? That [00:21:30] they can continue to reiterate, refine and revise to the point to where it’s better and better and better, and for you, you are an example of the fact that it doesn’t have to be an idea or a product that you come up with yourself.

Jack Arturo: No, no, yeah. I mean, often it isn’t. I think that a lot of great projects have come at looking at the shortcomings of other things. For example, we do our sales [00:22:00] on our site through Easy Digital Downloads, which is a great plugin for selling digital products, and I don’t know the full story but I assume that that project came out of them looking at Wu Commerce, but Wu Commerce is really designed to sell physical products. It includes things like shipping and that sort of stuff that a lot of people selling stuff online are selling digital products like courses or plugins or whatever, and so they thought, “Why don’t we make something that’s [00:22:30] designed for the customer who wants to sell digital products?” Now Easy Digital Downloads has become a massive plugin. They’ve got hundreds of support reps all around the world and a huge ecosystem of their own add-ons, so yeah, I think you spend time in this space and you look at what’s working and what’s not and maybe what could be done better or what existing solutions could be improved upon, and that’s a great place to find your niche and then build a product that serves those customers.

Chris Davis: Yeah, and I think what’s also good [00:23:00] to highlight is the fact that when you believe in a solution that you’ve created, you are intentional with getting it in front of as many people as possible, right?

Jack Arturo: Yeah, yeah, and I really love that. I do enjoy doing projects for big corporations and stuff like that, but yeah, you’ll work for six months on it and then at the end hopefully you get a nice letter saying, “Thanks, you did a great job,” but it’s really rewarding to, over three years, be constantly improving the same thing [00:23:30] and then having every week you get another customer saying, “Wow, you’ve made my life better” or “wow, you’ve made this easier, ” so it’s just kind of a dream as a developer to have one thing that you can work on that you can constantly improve and yo know every time you make it better, it’s making hundreds of peoples lives easier, so yeah.

Chris Davis: Yeah, and just so everybody is clear, because I really want to stress the difference with WP Fusion because a lot of people may have been looking [00:24:00] for this solution and didn’t realize it, right?

Jack Arturo: Yeah, yeah.

Chris Davis: If you look at your website, your WordPress website, as data coming in, right? All of the data coming in, whether it’s a popup that you have on there, a page that they visit, a form that they fill out, that’s all data that comes into WordPress. WP Fusion allows you to take that data and sync it to ActiveCampaign. Okay? That’s just level number one, is getting the data in. That was like two years ago, [00:24:30] right?

Jack Arturo: Yeah, yeah.

Chris Davis: Let’s just get the data in, but what Jack is expressing now is that you can also use … Now you can use the data that is in the account, right? We’re using WordPress as one way of getting data into ActiveCampaign, but people are … Data is coming into ActiveCampaign as well, so if you can just envision two different circles and data coming into each circle and as they’re growing independently, WP [00:25:00] Fusion is that line right between them so that the data that comes into ActiveCampaign can be sent over to that same contact that exists in WordPress and data that’s coming in from WordPress can be sent over to ActiveCampaign and keep the two in sync. With that understanding of the functionality, the world opens up because now I can have platforms that integrate with ActiveCampaign and be confident that I can send that information over to my website, right?

Jack Arturo: [00:25:30] Yeah, and that’s very important, yeah.

Chris Davis: I can have platforms that integrate with my website, right, and send that information over to ActiveCampaign.

Jack Arturo: Yeah, so you can have … Right, the link back to WordPress is just as important. I know customers who will have their products on Thrivecar or something. A different eCommerce platform, and that can create the contact in ActiveCampaign and apply the tag, but then ActiveCampaign can send the information to WordPress that creates a new WordPress user, generates a password, enrolls them in the Learn [00:26:00] Dash course that they purchased or the membership level they signed up for, and then ActiveCampaign sends an email saying, “Thanks for your purchase. Here’s how to log in and access your course,” so anything that you put into ActiveCampaign from any one of your hundreds of integrations, can also be used to do things on your WordPress site.

Chris Davis: Yeah, and that’s one thing that I really love about these next level membership sites, and if it’s anything, I want people to understand the freedom that you now have is [00:26:30] the old way in the old days, the same membership plugin would be what you use to sell, so that your shopping cart is integrated with the membership plugin so when you buy something like Digital Access Pass, Wishlist Member, Member Mouse, things of that nature, they have a built in shopping cart or a built in payment processor, and that is how people get access, so at any time, if you’re searching and you’re saying, “Oh [00:27:00] man, I really like that payment processor,” it does more for us, but if I’m using it, how do I give them membership access?

Jack Arturo: Yeah, and I have customers … For example I have a customer right now who does a series of online cooking classes in Brazil and they need to accept Brazilian payments which means they have to use this system called [foreign language 00:27:23] which is not very common. You’re not gonna find that in member press or paid [00:27:30] memberships pro, but Wu Commerce does support it, because Wu Commerce is so big, so, see, WP Fusion, we’re able to let them make the purchase using this really niche Brazilian payment processor but still grant access to their courses and memberships.

Chris Davis: Yep, wow.

Jack Arturo: You can separate the two which can be very helpful in certain situations.

Chris Davis: Yep, I love it, and the goal here, everybody, you may need to listen. You may need to listen to this a few times, because the functionality is what’s important. We are in a day [00:28:00] and age where integrating tools is going to be just the foundation of your business when it’s online. The online portion of your business. We can declare now, you and I, Jack, and everybody listening, declare with us, gone is the all-in-one approach and honestly I don’t think it ever really lived. It was just the only solution at times.

Jack Arturo: Yep, you’re right.

Chris Davis: But now, as business needs are getting more specific, marketing [00:28:30] strategies are evolving specific to online. Now it becomes important for us as marketers of our businesses, to be able to maintain the maximum amount of flexibility, so like you said, if I live in Brazil and I’m taking payments using a specific processor, why should I be limited to the functionality that some plugin that’s US-based offers?

Jack Arturo: Yep, yeah.

Chris Davis: I want that functionality, but since I live in Brazil, you’re gonna penalize me? Right?

Jack Arturo: Yeah, exactly, [00:29:00] exactly.

Chris Davis: [crosstalk 00:29:01] So solutions like this are key. Go ahead.

Jack Arturo: The downside of that shift is that it can be really overwhelming to a first-time user. Obviously installing a one system that does your memberships, your courses and your payments is a lot easier to get up and running, but that’s also why we put such an emphasis on our support. We’ll often get customers coming in, just saying, “This is the problem I want to solve and these are my limitations,” and then because of our experience with all these plugins and seeing how [00:29:30] so many different customers have done it, we’re able to recommend, “Okay, you can use this for your payments, this for your courses, and here’s how to link it,” so we often spend a lot of time just consulting with people on how to best set up these individual pieces to get the perfect experience for them.

Chris Davis: Great, great. Jack, this has been great. Wow, I was very familiar with the plugin but I even feel like just us talking through it again, I’m just like, “Wow, I just have a whole ‘nother appreciation,” [00:30:00] a different level, I should say, of appreciation for what you’re doing, and as WordPress continues to evolve, and like I said, the needs of business owners, I can see WP Fusion becoming more and more of that centerpiece that people are looking for and utilizing, so in closing, what’s next? What do you have on your radar, whether it’s feature updates or just what you’re seeing as far as in the space of syncing and membership sites? What’s next for [00:30:30] WP Fusion?

Jack Arturo: Well, one of the big things right now is WP Fusion is kind of CRM agnostic, which is another nice feature we have, so it’s the same plugin and it works with six different CRMs in the same way. We’ve figured out how to standardize all of the tags and fields and all that stuff between these different systems and APIs, which was no small feat, and what we’ve found is a lot of customers will be stuck in something, like Infusion Soft, and they want to go to ActiveCampaign, but there’s no way to get all of your contacts out [00:31:00] with all of their tags intact and the tag categories, because ActiveCampaign doesn’t have tag categories in the custom fields, so we’re actually in the process now of developing a CRM migration tool, so it’s similar to WP Fusion but instead of just setting it up and saying, “What’s your API Key password?” You say, “I’m coming from here, here’s my credentials, and I want to go to here. Here’s my credentials,” and it will load all of your data from Infusion Soft. It’ll ask you some questions about how you’d like to deal with categorizing [00:31:30] your tags or how you’d like to convert a dropdown to a radio button, for example, and then you click “go” and it will migrate your entire contact database from one CRM system to another.

Chris Davis: Wow.

Jack Arturo: Yeah, so that’s kinda gonna be our next thing. It’ll be a little while. It’s a bit of a challenge, but I think that right now, we’ve kind of … We’ve kinda solved the problem on the WordPress end. People don’t get locked into a single [00:32:00] system. We give them a lot of flexibility there but I get a lot of customers who are locked into a CRM and they wish they could move but it’s just too much work or sometimes even technically impossible, so I think our next phase is we want to make that easy for people to move to whatever system they feel would be best for them and make that really easy.

Chris Davis: What I love about it, Jack, man, wow, is you’re playing to your strengths, right? You have years of syncing multiple platforms, so [00:32:30] it would’ve scared me and given me a bit of pause if you said, “Yeah, Chris, the next thing we’re gonna do is we’ve got this line of hair products that we want …” You know?

Jack Arturo: Maybe next year, yeah.

Chris Davis: Right, and that’s an extreme example, but it’s so common amongst entrepreneurs who offer a service, that instead of leveraging all of their experience in one space and seeing how they could package it differently, they go for an entirely different [00:33:00] packaging.

Jack Arturo: Yeah. We’re staying in this space and we’re just trying to figure out what more we can bring to it.

Chris Davis: Yeah, yeah, so if I were to assess a migration tool, who would I choose? Somebody who’s just getting started in migration and syncing? Or a company that’s been syncing multiple platforms on WordPress for years, successfully?

Jack Arturo: Exactly. Yeah, we’ve already got the … If you want to, you can export 45,000 [00:33:30] WordPress users to a new empty active campaign account. We’ve figured out how to make that work.

Chris Davis: Wow.

Jack Arturo: That’s come through trial and error over several months of customers doing larger list sizes than we thought were conceivable and running into bugs, so yeah, we’ve hammered all those out and now we’re gonna try and take all that knowledge and use it not just from syncing to WordPress to a CRM but then syncing from one CRM to another. Well, not syncing but migrating.

Chris Davis: Right, right. I love it. To me, [00:34:00] it’s like the orchestra, right? When I see people doing just this type of development online because these are huge needs, right?

Jack Arturo: Yeah.

Chris Davis: It’s like insurance, you don’t need it til you know you need it. You don’t realize it was a good choice until you need it, and it’s just like, “Wow, until you need to migrate, you’ll never know the pain.”

Jack Arturo: Exactly.

Chris Davis: You’ll never know the pain of having to do that, [00:34:30] and knowing that you’re focused on that, I feel like you’re just perfectly qualified.

Jack Arturo: Yeah, and that came out of customer needs as well. I have a few customers from years ago and obviously the CRM market has evolved since then, and they’re really unhappy and they’re like, “Well, how could we move?” I started thinking about it and I was like, “You really can’t.” It’s not an easy thing to …

Chris Davis: Yeah, right.

Jack Arturo: To move 300,000 [00:35:00] contacts from all their tags and fields, and after a couple people mentioned that as a need and I realized nobody else was addressing that need, I thought that might be an interesting new challenge to tackle.

Chris Davis: Yeah, yeah, well Jack, you have our full support. We love what you’re doing. Thank you for coming on and sparing some time to share exactly what does your product do and letting us know more and more about you as a person and the brain behind [00:35:30] the brand, so to speak. With that, like I said, keep up the good work. I will be watching with a keen eye everything that you do, honestly. Like I said, we’re fans internally at ActiveCampaign, and personally I’m a fan of everything that you’re doing and I appreciate the level of integrity and the meticulous nature that you approach your platform with.

Jack Arturo: That’s great, Chris, and thanks for the invite. I do appreciate it.

Chris Davis: [00:36:00] Yeah, so if anybody is wondering, “How do I get my hands on such an amazing … Okay, you sold me. Chris, oh my gosh, where do I get it?” You can go to WPFusionPlugin.com.

Jack Arturo: Yep, that’s us.

Chris Davis: WP as in WordPress, fusion, F-U-S-I-O-N, plugin, P-L-U-G-I-N. No spaces, no hyphens. WPFusionPlugin.com. The link is going to be in the show notes. Is there anywhere else [00:36:30] you would want people to go if they want to learn more about you or connect with you, Jack?

Jack Arturo: No, that’s the main resource. You can just Google us too. There’s a lot of people who posted reviews and there’s some customers who are real enthusiastic and have put their own tutorials on YouTube and that kind of thing, so yeah, but our website’s the main point of information.

Chris Davis: Great, great. Well again, Jack, thanks so much. I appreciate you coming on the podcast and I’ll see you online.

Jack Arturo: Alright, yep, we’ll see you around. Thanks, Chris.

Chris Davis: [00:37:00] That concludes our three part membership series on next generation membership sites. I hope by now if you were able to listen to every part in this series, that you have a better understanding of each tool and you are confident in which approach best suits and fits your business needs when building out a membership site or sending information from your WordPress website to [00:37:30] ActiveCampaign. It’s been nothing short of extreme joy and fun interviewing these creators, these developers, who are doing such a great service to us all as ActiveCampaign users as we continue to grow our business and rely on more and more marketing tools. If you’re not subscribed to the podcast, I want to invite you. I want to extend a special invitation for you to become a consistent listener, [00:38:00] okay, and eventually a contributor, and here’s what I mean. If you go to ActiveCampaign.com/podcast, you can listen to every podcast, but furthermore, if you go to iTunes, Google Play or Stitcher Radio and subscribe, you’ll be notified the minute a new podcast is released and you can listen to it at your convenience, wherever you’re at, alright?

The second part of this is you can also be a guest. I am extending [00:38:30] an exclusive invitation to you to come and be a guest on the ActiveCampaign podcast. If you are using ActiveCampaign in any level of success, regardless of what type of business you have, the more, the merrier. I want to invite you to become a guest and interview you on the ActiveCampaign podcast. You can do so at ActiveCampaign.com/podcast/guest. Fill out that form and we’ll be [00:39:00] able to get you scheduled and in the queue and your voice may be the next voice you hear on the ActiveCampaign podcast. For those of you who are subscribed, thank you for your support. Keep the feedback coming, keep the feedback coming. Five star ratings in iTunes are greatly appreciated as well as Google Play and Stitcher. Comments. Get the word out, everybody. Let’s start sharing more and more about what you’re learning and listening to on this podcast. This is the ActiveCampaign podcast, the small [00:39:30] business podcast to help you scale and propel your business using marketing automation. I’ll see you on the next episode.