Episode 29: Balancing Automation & Personalization with Andrew Brockenbush

Episode 29: Balancing Automation & Personalization with Andrew Brockenbush

Andrew Brockenbush shares his insights into balancing automation and personalization to shape the customer experience at Beefy Marketing.


Andrew Brockenbush of Beefy Marketing talks to Chris Davis, podcast host and Director of Education at ActiveCampaign, about striking out on his own to start a business and his secrets to success in growing that business. Hear how Andrew expertly balances technology with human touch to shape a unique experience for his customers, scale his business, and…throw pizza parties?
Find Andrew Brockenbush online at BeefyMarketing.com.
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Chris Davis: Welcome to another episode of the ActiveCampaign podcast. Today, I [00:00:30] have with me, Andrew Brockenbush of Beefy Marketing. They are a marketing agency. And the reason why this episode is going to be so cool is that it’s really going to help everybody understand that each tool has a use for a person, and a purpose. And Andrew is someone who is no stranger to technology. He’s no stranger to marketing, in fact, and I’ll let him explain it, they’re doing some really interesting things as they grow [00:01:00] their business by leveraging technology.

And what I found very interesting is that we’re going to talk about his story. His progress from going through each tool set or the many tool sets that he’s gone through, and what went into his decision-making process and going with ActiveCampaign.

So this should be a real good one. You’ll probably want to get your note pads out. And fair warning, there will be some name dropping. All right, we are [00:01:30] going to drop names of other platforms, not to bash or anything, but we just want to show, give you a full perspective of why people are using ActiveCampaign so you can get a better understanding. And even more confidence, if you’re already using it.

So without further ado, Andrew, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?

Andrew Brockenbush: Hey, I’m good Chris. Thanks for having me.

Chris Davis: Yes, I am so glad to have you, because we just got to chat briefly. Just brief minutes beforehand. And it’s always [00:02:00] good for me, personally, to meet another nerd, another techie.

Andrew Brockenbush: Yes.

Chris Davis: Mind, brother in arms, because we are the ones that are diving into all of these technologies, right?

Andrew Brockenbush: Most definitely. Sometimes too many tools.

Chris Davis: Yeah, right. We’re the ones trying them out. And it’s all for the client, right? At least that’s what we like to tell ourselves.

Andrew Brockenbush: Yeah, that’s right.

Chris Davis: It’s always for the client, so Andrew, tell us a little about your background.

Andrew Brockenbush: [00:02:30] I actually started, my first ever business was a recording studio. I don’t know how I got into marketing, but I had a recording studio. I had a degree in music production. I actually saw a need where musicians were actually way more needing help with marketing than they needed help with recording their next album.

And so I kind of started with that. That was really where I kind of got my feet wet. And I actually closed my recording studio, and I went to work for Apple. I went to work for Apple as a part-time sales guy. And that kind of just blew up. I [00:03:00] ended up being a corporate trainer. I would travel to different stores. I would do Grand Openings. I would work with the different leadership teams at the different stores.

And I would say that’s where I became grounded. I learned so much from Apple. I think that they elevated me so much, because of how much they pour into their employees, into their people, and to their customer experience. And so I got my best experiences at Apple. And so I left Apple to open [00:03:30] an agency back in 2012.

I had a client reach out that wanted to do a tee shirt design, actually. And I designed this tee shirt and I think they did about a hundred thousand dollars in sales off of one tee shirt. And they were like, Dude, come work for us. And I was like, you know what? I’m not going to work for you, but I will open my own business because that’s what I do.

And so I opened an agency, and I kind of just learned along the way like I think a lot of small business owners and entrepreneurs do is we kind of go with the flow. But that’s [00:04:00] really my background. You know, started small and our agency’s grown a lot to kind of where we’re at today. And to even where we’re going to be tomorrow.

Chris Davis: Yeah, I mean, that’s a very pivotal move and brave, by the way, when you can see a friend take something that you created, in your case, a design, and make a $100K off of it. I mean, I would just assume that $100K was probably more than Apple was paying you.

Andrew Brockenbush: Oh yeah. I mean, here’s the deal. [00:04:30] Apple paid me well, right. Like Apple paid me really well, and the things that I learned there are invaluable. But I saw an opportunity. It’s one of those things, there’s a cap at some point when you work for the man. And there’s nothing wrong with that. There’s people that are really great at working for organizations. And there’s people like, you know, Steve Jobs and many other CEOs, who are just like, man they have this vision to just do more. And sometimes, that gets you into [00:05:00] a little bit of trouble because you have a million ideas, right.

Chris Davis: Yeah.

Andrew Brockenbush: But it’s definitely what pushed me to leave Apple. And I was super fortunate that Apple was supportive of my leave. They said, “Hey, if this doesn’t work out for you, no big deal. You still have a job.” And so that was super exciting. It was just like leaving on a high note. And leaving in a position where my team supported me to go do this new thing.

Chris Davis: Yep. So you leave Apple. You help your friend make $100K, right.

Andrew Brockenbush: Some cash.

Chris Davis: And [00:05:30] at this point, the world is yours, right. It’s just nothing but opportunity out there. So you say, you know what, I’m going to start this agency. I’m going to take it by force. And right after you start the agency, the question is, okay, “How do I market this?” Right, how do I get the word out?

Andrew Brockenbush: That’s right.

Chris Davis: What was your initial marketing efforts in technologies?

Andrew Brockenbush: Technology. Maybe it wasn’t so good in the beginning. Like [00:06:00] way too many free tools. And free plug-ins. And there’s nothing wrong with those. Everybody’s got to start somewhere, right? But I think that I probably got myself into more bad situations because of that then when I finally made the decision to say, “Hey you know what. You have to invest in yourself. You have to invest in what you’re doing.”

But it was super grassroots in the beginning. And I think that’s even a part of the journey, too, is deciding who you are and what you’re going to offer. And when we started it was, I remember, you can laugh [00:06:30] if you want. But my old tagline was “We do it all and that’s no bull.” And I just thought that’s such a bad philosophy, looking back now, six or seven years later. I’m like, why? No, don’t do it all. That’s really bad.

And so I’ve obviously grown a lot, and we’ve focused a lot more. And we know who we are. And we know what we’re passionate about. But, honestly, early on, technology, you know, we were probably using a free flash builder to build [00:07:00] our website. I mean, it was really bad in the beginning.

And really, like I said, it did get me into some trouble. We were having poor customer experience, and lost money. Just because things were not automated. And when you’re a small team. In the beginning it was just me, right? And then I had one freelancer and one contractor. And some guy who’s considering being my business partner. And at that moment, it’s like, everything’s on you. You have to do everything on your own. And I’m sure that there’s a [00:07:30] lot of guys that are members of your platform that are probably solopreneurs, people who have a lot of responsibility. Kind of solely on their hands.

And so I would say that it’s really important to define who you are, where you’re going to be, and how you can make your processes seamless as possible, so your customer experience never sucks.

Chris Davis: Yeah.

Andrew Brockenbush: No matter how small or large you are.

Chris Davis: These are some really good points that you bring out. The first one that stands out to me is the free [00:08:00] threshold, right.

Andrew Brockenbush: Yes.

Chris Davis: As you mentioned, there’s nothing wrong with free. I think everybody gets some form of tingly, somewhere in their body when they see the word free. Right? It’s just something about getting value in exchange for nothing.

Andrew Brockenbush: That’s right.

Chris Davis: We’re attached to it. However, it does come with a caveat that a lot of people don’t see. There’s a string attached. That invisible fishing line string that you don’t see that’s there, and it is exactly what you’re saying. You’re only going to [00:08:30] be able to make it so far, right. You’re only going to be able to get to a certain level of customer experience and just business flow.

Andrew Brockenbush: Definitely. Definitely.

Chris Davis: You’re just operating your business, and when we’re talking about the solopreneur and the small teams, it’s all about being lean and efficient.

Andrew Brockenbush: That’s right.

Chris Davis: Right? Technology becomes your employee. And if you think about it, what, [00:09:00] besides non-profits, which none of us are, the majority of us are in a for profit business, what for profit business is built on volunteers?

Andrew Brockenbush: Yeah, hardly. Not mine. Not mine.

Chris Davis: So why would we ask technology to volunteer for us? That’s what free technology is. It’s a volunteer.

Andrew Brockenbush: That’s right.

Chris Davis: Instead of paying for it,, you know.

Andrew Brockenbush: And I think on that, I think a great note would be, never underestimate the value of support that comes with a premium [00:09:30] product. I’d say that, I’ve signed up for a lot of free tools in my time. I probably still do, just to test the waters. But I remember early on in my career, I used a free e-commerce solution and because of that, there was zero support. And I remember that was a big, big deal, because you’re at the mercy of hoping somebody is going to help you in the help desk, or in the documents of the software. And I think [00:10:00] that those are all like really useful resources. There’s a time and place for them.

But when you pay for a product, there is usually a premium level of support that is attached to that. And I think that’s extremely valuable as a small business owner, because those are people you don’t have to pay for. Those are people that are supporting your business in the journey and wherever it’s at in that journey.

Chris Davis: Yeah, and you can add to it, I know, I believe it was episode 20. On episode 20, we had Katrina Scarlett, and she talked about customer service, marketing. [00:10:30] And one of the things that we brought up was that a lot of people are overlooking that which you just mentioned, like quality, service and support that comes with a good product. And nowadays, where you’re really only a tweet away.

Like an unhappy customer, as long as they have two thumbs, and sometimes they don’t even need that. They can tell Siri to [crosstalk 00:10:55]

Andrew Brockenbush: That’s right.

Chris Davis: And before you know it there’s a viral post about how [00:11:00] you did something or didn’t do something in your business. And now people who potentially could have been strong advocates, are now, I would never. So that’s a really good point.

Now, Andrew, at some point you’re willing to do the investment. You understand I want to take this agency thing serious. And you got it. At some point you had your stack, you had your customer service, you had everything figured out. What was that point, [00:11:30] and what did your marketing stack look like at that point?

Andrew Brockenbush: I think I was using, unfortunately, a bulk of tools. I was probably using, I think at that point I was using either Campaign Monitor or Mail Chimp to do my email marketing. And really low level automation. Mail Chimp at the time was just rolling out automation. It was, everybody was talking about it. At that point, I think the only people doing it really well were, ah there’s a big tech. What are they called? [00:12:00] I can’t remember. There’s a company that’s huge for automation. The problem was, it was super technical.

So if you didn’t have a full-time employee that could build this automations out for you, you were just out of luck, right? And so I was using Mail Chimp for the two automation features they had, which was disappointing. But it was a help.

I think we used Base Camp and we were using, man, we were using three or four tools [00:12:30] just … We were using one for our CRM. And one, 17hats, is the one that we were sending contracts with. And just a lot of different tools to piecemeal together a lot of what we needed to do as an agency. And that adds up.

Like you’re paying $30 per month for one. $100 a month for another one. And you’re really not getting the [thin 00:12:51]solution you’re looking for.

I think that’s really what appealed to me so much about ActiveCampaign. I don’t even remember how I came across you guys. Probably [00:13:00] googling till two in the morning, like I normally do.

Chris Davis: Yeah, right.

Andrew Brockenbush: But I think what was so valuable to me was, 1) you guys had the best automation features that I had seen. And it was intuitive. It was highly intuitive. And then you guys had the one on one training which still to this day, you guys are one of the few companies I’ve ever seen offer that as a part of the price packages.

Chris Davis: Right.

Andrew Brockenbush: And I think that’s so killer. The fact that I can hop on with somebody and make sure that I’m setting my software up the way I really want it to be used. [00:13:30] And I don’t have to pay extra for that. I don’t have to pay another contractor on some contracting site to do that. That’s extremely valuable. And that’s really what was, “I’m doing it.”

Chris Davis: And it goes back to the service, right? I tell people all the time, if you sign up for ActiveCampaign today, you’ve got a 14 day free trial. I personally do office hours twice a week. And then you have a free one on one. So within two weeks, you can literally have five interactions with a human being,

Andrew Brockenbush: [00:14:00] That’s so amazing.

Chris Davis: specific to your business automation. Right? That’s crazy. And it really is [unseen 00:14:08].

I remember when I was started here, Andrew. I just kept scratching my temple. I was like, “How can we do this?”

Andrew Brockenbush: How is this working? Yeah.

Chris Davis: Right. Like what is going on? Because I came from a background where it was like, make all sales online. The previous startup I with, everything took place online. The only time you talked to a human was if there was a support issue. Or a special webinar [00:14:30] or something like that.

Andrew Brockenbush: Yeah. Or a problem, or whatever, yeah.

Chris Davis: Yeah, right. And now it’s just proactively, and this is always there. You can sign up for a one on one and talk to somebody. And the reason why I think that’s so important is because, and you can speak to this, man. Understanding how to properly leverage and implement marketing automation is so individual, right?

Andrew Brockenbush: That’s very true.

Chris Davis: We can provide all the templates that we [00:15:00] want, right? And we can provide all of the guidance, but it’s really going to be about you understanding your business, your audience and what you’re trying to do.

Andrew Brockenbush: That’s right. I do a webinar, actually, it’s all about how the modern buyer has really changed and evolved over the last 10, 20 years. And I think that’s directly tied directly to that. You think of some of the coolest brands out there, like Netflix, Amazon. Netflix, they’re telling you, hey, watch these shows based on these other three shows you watch [00:15:30] already.

And Amazon is saying, hey, based on what this last product you bought, I think you might also be interested in this product. And so I think we’re on this verge of personalization being so, so important, right? We can’t just speak to the masses anymore, we have to speak to the individuals.

And I think that’s where ActiveCampaign has really supported us. Was making sure that we’re personalizing our customers journeys. And we’re making sure that based on their action, right, or our goal conversions, or whatever they do on our website, [00:16:00] we’re making sure that we’re sending content that’s relevant to them, because I think if you can do that, if you can leverage that, no matter what industry that you’re in, there’s so much value to be had, right? Because, the modern buyer nowadays, I don’t necessarily need to talk to a sales person to buy a product. I can hop on Google, research 10 companies. Get all the information I need, right?

So it’s really important that modern sales people, as well as, your online marketing, reflect that very personalized approach.

Chris Davis: [00:16:30] Yeah. I could not agree more. I mean, you talk about just the natural human desire is to be known. That’s why we seek companionship, right, because we want to be known. We want people who we strongly resonate and can connect with, not only to share what we’re going through and have like interests, but to be known by each other.

And when you can pull that off in marketing, [00:17:00] when Netflix recommends a show to me based on stuff I’ve watched, and it’s a show that’s good, I’m like, Netflix, what would I do without you?

Andrew Brockenbush: Yeah, exactly.

Chris Davis: Right?

Andrew Brockenbush: And I think that’s important to something I’m super passionate about Churn, because I have a subscription model company. And I think there’s probably a lot you guys’ users and listeners to the podcast that are also probably in a subscription model.

Chris Davis: Sure.

Andrew Brockenbush: And I think that it’s so important [00:17:30] to have like a killer personalized onboarding, as well as just lifetime journey. Because if not, like Churn’s going to be high. Because people are going to be like, they don’t feel like you’re talking to them. They don’t feel like there’s a relationship there.

I know that I read an article just the other day that said, some of Amazon’s Prime Members, best buyers, people who buy a lot and do a lot of business with Amazon, consumers, sometimes Amazon will just surprise them with a gift based on [00:18:00] previous purchases they’ve made.

Chris Davis: Wow.

Andrew Brockenbush: 100% just, “Hey. Here’s a package that you didn’t order, but we thought you would like it.” You think about what that does to the relationship with the customer. I’ve have a great story there. I ordered a fishing rod and a fishing pole on a Tuesday or Wednesday before I was going on a fishing trip that weekend. And I remember, that Friday when it was supposed to be there, it hadn’t made it. So I called Amazon up and said, “Hey, this didn’t make it. What should I do?” And [00:18:30] they were like, “Hey, this is what we’re going to do for you. We’re going to go ahead and refund the fishing rod. And then we’re going to go ahead and not cancel the order, so you’re going to have it come to your door Monday. And we’re so sorry about the inconvenience, but next time, hopefully, you’ll have a backup fishing rod at the house.

I got a $100 fishing rod, a 100% for free from Amazon because they wanted to make that experience right. I’m never going to cancel my Amazon Prime membership. Ever. Like that’s the coolest thing, right?

Chris Davis: Yeah. And what did that cost them for a lifetime customer?

Andrew Brockenbush: [00:19:00] Exactly. The LTV is totally worth it.

Chris Davis: Yep, yep. And what I like about everything that you’re talking about is, we’re talking about the entire business experience. We’re not, so when I’m talking to you as a user of ActiveCampaign, it’s not like I’m saying, “Hey Andrew, what’s the one way that you’re using ActiveCampaign?” You’re like, “I send really amazing email.” Right?

Andrew Brockenbush: Nope. [crosstalk 00:19:27]

Chris Davis: Exactly. You’re looking at your entire business [00:19:30] and saying, “Oh my gosh, I’m using it for this. I’m using it for that.” So what I wanted to ask you, is a lot of times people can more easily comprehend or understand some of the external things, right? Like when someone visits your website, tagging them. Or sending out an email to one list versus the next.

What are some of the backend ways that you’ve been leveraging ActiveCampaign that may be not as talked about widely, nowadays?

Andrew Brockenbush: [00:20:00] You know, I think I’ve got a good one. So I’ve obviously been talking about those first 90 days. That onboarding time, because they say that a customer’s lifetime value and profitability will have actually be set in stone in that 90 day window, right? So although it’s super valuable to make sure that those first 90 days of a customer’s onboarding is drilled down and excellent. You need to communicate with them the most during this time, because they’re still kind of in an open buyer’s stage in this journey. So it’s like, they’re still [00:20:30] willing to change their mind. They’re still willing to upsell. You’ve got a lot of leverage in those first 90 days.

But there is something that I really care about that happens post the first 90 days, and that’s after the launch of a client project. And that’s in my industry, specifically. But I think the other businesses might be able to relate. And that’s that, a lot of times we launch a product, whether it be a website or a logo design. Or maybe the customer finished their onboarding sequence on your SAS technology or whatever. And then that’s pretty much it. It kind of goes quiet. [00:21:00] The only automation that happens after that might be a monthly blog post. Or maybe, like a feature. Like here’s some new features that we’ve released. Those kind of things.

What I really try to do at this point is, celebrate the launch. I want the customer to know that I really care about them, as a customer. And so, one of the things that we do is, we actually have our project managers tag a client with the tag “launched”. And then I have an automation sequence in ActiveCampaign set up so that [00:21:30] when the tag “launched” has been added, it automatically puts them through a new automation sequence. And what that sequence does, is it actually notifies Kara, our social media manager, who reaches out to them and schedules a pizza party, and we work out all the details, we send them pizza. Because you think about it, everybody’s got pizza for $5.00 now, right? It’s not like it costs a lot to buy pizzas for somebody.

Chris Davis: Yep.

Andrew Brockenbush: So we do a pizza party. And then as soon as the party’s been scheduled, she makes [00:22:00] another tag that says “scheduled”. And that automatically sends them another email that says, “Hey, we would love to celebrate with you on social, whenever your pizza party happens. Make sure to share your pictures. We would love to celebrate with you.

Now, that’s kind of two-fold. There’s a selfish need there, and there’s also like, we genuinely do want to celebrate with our clients, but at the same time, all those social shares really help for organic growth and SEO. And a lot of times it’s hard to force a customer to do that. But when [00:22:30] you send that customer a pizza party, well suddenly, they have no problem sharing photos. Because when’s the last time a web design company bought you a pizza, right?

Chris Davis: Right. Right.

Andrew Brockenbush: When’s the last time a software company’s bought you a pizza? I mean, you think about those little things. I feel like they really add a lot of value. Suddenly that customer goes from just a normal customer, to say like a promoter, right? We think about NPS and net promoter scores. Moving that customer from just a, “Oh, that was okay. [00:23:00] It was an okay experience.” To like, “Holy crap, that was a blast. We launched our website. We were celebrated with the pizza party.”

And now, if this was a webinar, I’d share my screen and show that there’s a lot more happening on the backend of ActiveCampaign than just that. We’ve actually got it set up so that if the person responds to their email saying, yes they want a pizza party, it automatically stops the workflow. Whereas, if they don’t respond, we have another task that’s set up for [00:23:30] our social media manager so she knows, hey, I need to follow up with this person.

Chris Davis: Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Andrew Brockenbush: I’d say that’s one of the cool ways we use it. Another cool way that I love that we use it is during the actual, and this will be maybe an agency that’s listening to this podcast will take a lot from this part. But one of the biggest challenges agencies face with building a new website is getting content from clients. It’s a very, very known issue. It’s a challenge. And what usually happens is your project manager and your web designer/developer [00:24:00] get bogged down with always having to be sending emails two times, three times a week just chasing the client down.

Where we’ve actually set it up now so that the client can be tagged as waiting for content. And we drop them into an automation sequence that says, “Hey don’t forget we’re waiting for content. If you have questions, reach out to your project manager.” We wait two or three days. If that tag’s not been removed, we send them another email that says, “Hey, coming up with photos can be really hard. Check out our top five favorite sites for finding royalty free [00:24:30] images.”

Chris Davis: Nice.

Andrew Brockenbush: And so we are really utilizing these automation sequences and ActiveCampaign to help us move our internal processes. To keep our guys from getting bogged down with processes that don’t really need to be happening. It doesn’t need to be taking a lot of a person’s time, right? Whenever it can be automated, personalized and automatically stopped when a user interacts.

And I think that’s what’s the coolest to me is, a lot of times people get a little nervous about automation because [00:25:00] they feel like it can come off robotic. And it can feel like not organic and not natural. But the way it works in ActiveCampaign is, based on a user’s next step, or next action, we can actually stop those automations from going altogether so that we can take over. The human can take over. A real perfect mix of human and technology. I love that.

Chris Davis: There it is. And that hybrid approach, Andrew, is exactly what I want everybody to experience. I’m [00:25:30] just sitting back here smiling as you’re talking, because you’re outlining the exact keys to success in business growth. And it’s not just having your front end technology in sync.

Yes, all of that is extremely important. When you run a webinar and someone registers, you need them to be able to be synced with your CRM and ActiveCampaign and then when they purchase, you need them to be able to send that information to ActiveCampaign, as well, right? That’s extremely [00:26:00] important.

And when that’s working, the next thing that you’ll realize is prohibiting you from growth is the backend sync. Right? Like having the backend sync’d up, because now the backend is going to require more people. The front end may be a little technology heavy, but I don’t care what business you’re in. The backend is going to have some humans. There’s just no way.

Andrew Brockenbush: It has to be humans.

Chris Davis: Right? And you’re not going to eliminate humans from the backend. [00:26:30] So for those who embrace that, and then say, “Okay, I need humans. But in between the humans, this glue or the processes in between, I can officiate, right? And execute, so that when humans do interact, it’s minimal and it’s more effective.

Andrew Brockenbush: Definitively.

Chris Davis: So I love that example of you tagging somebody waiting for content, because like I said, now they never see that, right?

Andrew Brockenbush: They never [00:27:00] see it. That’s right.

Chris Davis: Even though, the contact themselves they never [experience 00:27:04]. So for a lot of people, they think if the contact doesn’t see it or if it’s not visible, it’s not happening, whereas the experienced automator loves it. We love what you can’t see. Right?

Just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean that I’m not working my magic.

Andrew Brockenbush: That’s right.

Chris Davis: And what I love, the second part about it, is not only are you tagging them like waiting for content, but now if they have this tag, you [00:27:30] can start sending them communication to aid them in collecting the very content you need.

Andrew Brockenbush: That’s right.

Chris Davis: I love it. I love it. That was a great example. And if anything, the reason why I really looked forward to this interview was because when you go to your website, beefymarketing.com, you’ll see, you guys have been featured in Inc. I mean it’s not like you just started yesterday.

Andrew Brockenbush: [00:28:00] Yeah, we’ve been doing this thing.

Chris Davis: Yeah, you’ve been doing it. So it’s like if you’re going to learn, listeners, if you’re going to learn from somebody as far as how to leverage. And you know what, not just to leverage ActiveCampaign, but somebody who’s leveraging ActiveCampaign correctly, and experiencing growth from it. What are they doing?

Andrew just laid out. He laid it out before you. He’s got his backend sync’d and automated [00:28:30] with the help of ActiveCampaign. You would be amazed at how far you can go making sure that, that backend, everybody is talking to each other, right?

We’re communicating. And we’re not just talking about email, right? Send an email and let them know it’s ready to go, and send an … That’s the old way.

Andrew Brockenbush: Oh yeah.

Chris Davis: Like corporate world 1999 type. We’re talking about, look, I’ve got a social media manager here . My fulfillment person is here. My marketer is here. And ActiveCampaign is sending out all the signals. [00:29:00] Hey I just did this. Hey they just did this.

So everybody’s in sync. And when I mean everybody, I mean every person is in sync without necessarily having to talk to each other.

Andrew Brockenbush: Yep. It is so awesome.

Chris Davis: Right. I just want everybody to experience it. Until you’ve experienced it, it’s just like, it’s like window shopping. Like the little kid looking up at the big lollipop with the bad sad puppy eyes because the store’s closed.

Andrew Brockenbush: [00:29:30] Yep.

Chris Davis: It’s like, no, the store’s not closed. Let me show you this back route. We can go get that, right now.

Andrew Brockenbush: That’s right.

Chris Davis: That’s how I view automation. Andrew, this is great, man.

So now, we come full circle. A lot of tools that you’ve been through and you’ve got this strong sales and customer experience background from when you were working. You’ve leveraged that to build a full scale or an experience in your agency that goes from [00:30:00] lead magnet all the way beyond just fulfillment. It’s ongoing [delightment 00:30:06]. To turn them into strong evangelists.

As you sit here today and look back at the path and all of the lessons learned, there’s a new ActiveCampaign user sitting right in front of you with all the potential in the world. What would you tell them? What are some keys that you would tell them?

Andrew Brockenbush: Man, I would tell them to think through, first of all, think through what you care about the most. [00:30:30] Is it your customer experiences that your time as a business owner? And as you think about those things, start simple. Start on a whiteboard. Start on a piece of paper. And think through what your customer journey’s going to look like. Think about what your internal processes look like. And then hop inside of ActiveCampaign and see how easy it is to take all the stuff that you put on paper and really digitize and automate. And I think you should take advantage of those one on ones with the ActiveCampaign support team.

[00:31:00] Don’t get overwhelmed, there’s a lot of agencies. There’s a lot of people. There’s a great support team. They’re all at your disposal to support you in that journey. And I think that that was it for me. If would have gotten bogged down and let the customer experience, which definitely, at times, slipped, define me. And be a defining moment for my agency, I probably would not be on this call with you. Probably wouldn’t be opening another business soon. There’s a lot of things that wouldn’t have happened.

So I think that staying focused on how can [00:31:30] I leverage technology to support my growth and to make sure that my customers are always served first. And I think if you do that you’ll be really successful.

Chris Davis: Yeah. And the key thing that you said there is, how can I use technology to support my growth, right? Not how can I use technology to do the growing?

Andrew Brockenbush: Support.

Chris Davis: Yes, support me as I’m growing this. [00:32:00] Technology, everybody, it doesn’t grow anything. It can’t. It’s just what it is. It’s technical. It’s ones and zeros and electrons and all of that. But what it does is it goes alongside with you. With the efforts that you’re doing. It helps you do more of them. It helps take things off your mind so that you have more creative freedom to think about strategies or other [00:32:30] opportunities.

These are all of the things that marketing technology affords us to do exactly what you said, support your growth.

And I just want to echo planning. You can not plan enough. If you have no clue where to get started with planning, then you most definitely need to sign up for a one on one. It’s not one of those things where it’s like, “Well, until I’ve built something, I don’t want to ask for help.” No. Sometimes the best time is before you’ve built anything.

Andrew Brockenbush: [00:33:00] That’s right.

Chris Davis: Right? Get on the call and say this is what I’m thinking about doing. Get clarity on that and then jump into the application. So, wow, Andrew, thank you so much, man. For all the listeners to get in contact with you, find out more about you, where can they do that?

Andrew Brockenbush: Definitely beefymarketing.com and I’d also like to talk a little bit, we’re also launching here [00:33:30] in a couple months, Wingman, which will actually be our small business marketing platform. And that will be really exciting, and they can go to trustyourwingman.com.

Chris Davis: I love the name. I love the name. So that’s trustyourwingman.com, beefymarketing.com. All links will be placed at the bottom of this episode just for whatever reason, in case you didn’t catch it and couldn’t spell it.

But I’m really excited about what you’re doing going forward. I know you said you’re splitting, and you’ll [00:34:00] have two different companies now. And you said, trustyourwingman?

Andrew Brockenbush: Trustyourwingman.

Chris Davis: I can almost envision a logo for it already.

Andrew Brockenbush: All right, perfect.

Chris Davis: I’ll be very excited to see how you grow that wing of your business, pun intended. So with that being said, Andrew, thank you so much for taking some time and being on the ActiveCampaign podcast helping our listeners [00:34:30] understand what it truly takes to grow a business. Some of the things that you may not see or take into account for, thank you for shedding light on such things.

Andrew Brockenbush: Yeah, thanks Chris.

Chris Davis: And any time you need anything, let us know, we’re here. And look, I want to extend this to you, Andrew, you’re never too advanced for a one on one.

Andrew Brockenbush: That’s right.

Chris Davis: Okay. So keep it edgy. Come back.

Andrew Brockenbush: I’ll schedule one.

Chris Davis: [00:35:00] Thank you, Andrew, I appreciate it.

Great, another great episode. Thank you so much for listening. If anything you got from this episode, I hope the main takeaway was just an understanding, a highlighting of exactly how much automation can benefit your business backend. I find that a lot of times the front end is what everybody is consumed with. Like landing pages and e-commerce [00:35:30] stores. But when the sale is made and marketing has been done effectively, now you have this new customer, this new baby in your business, and they have to be treated delicately and with care. And without properly focusing on those backends it’s easy to drop the baby. Don’t drop the baby, everybody.

If anything, do exactly what Andrew and I mentioned. Sign up for a one on one. You can do so at activecampaign.com/training. That way you can get some specific help regarding your [00:36:00] business and on that same page you’ll also be able to register for office hours. I host those live, twice a week every Tuesday at 10:00 AM central, and Friday at 1:00 PM central. It gives you another means of getting some help, some live personal help specific to your business. So we’re removing all excuses to be stuck. To have hit a wall with ActiveCampaign and can’t move forward. We’re removing all of those barriers and excuses for you so that you can grow and scale your business to [00:36:30] the size that it deserves. That you deserve.

And if this is your first time listening to the podcast, I want to invite you to become a permanent subscriber. You can do so on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher Radio. Just search ActiveCampaign podcast and subscribe. That way you’ll get notified whenever a new episode comes out. Those of you who have been listening or if this is your first episode, and you really enjoyed it, please leave a five star rating. Please, please do. It helps us get more visibility in the market place and get the word out [00:37:00] to more business owners to help them have more responsibility or execute more responsible marketing with ActiveCampaign.

Last but not least, all of the guided content and the material that you need to learn the space of marketing automation, and ActiveCampaign can be found at activecampaign.com/learn. That is our education center where yours truly is putting a lot of my time, effort, and expertise into making sure we’re [00:37:30] communicating clearly the aspects and ideas and strategies that you’ll need to leverage marketing automation.

This is the ActiveCampaign podcast. The small business podcast to help you scale and propel your business with marketing automation.

I’ll see you on the next episode.

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