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Episode 102: Onboarding Latest Trends

Learn latest trends for e-commerce onboarding and SaaS email marketing

Listen to Episode (35:17)

Synopsis

It can be tough to keep up with the latest trends in e-commerce. Thankfully, Lianna came on this episode to talk the latest trends and the do’s and don’ts of onboarding your new customers.

Lianna Patch is a conversion copywriter and comedian whose greatest dream is to make customers pause, smile, and click (in that order).

Transcript

Chris Davis: 00:24 Welcome to the ActiveCampaign podcast. I’m your host Chris Davis. On this episode I have Lianna Patch. She is a conversion copywriter that specializes in the post-product onboarding experience for e-commerce stores, and she’s got a very interesting portfolio and in this podcast, we got to talk about some of the things you should be doing and some of those things you should stay away from. And what was really nice about it is to really talk trends, because I feel like, in the digital marketing space, and it doesn’t matter if you’re a brick and mortar, if you’re leveraging online for any aspect of your business, things are changing so rapidly.

Chris Davis: 01:08 So it’s always good to keep an ear to the ground on some of the latest trends for our users. Or if you’re an anticipated user that’s planning to use Shopify, WooCommerce, BigCommerce or an e-commerce platform in your business, understanding those trends and how to be successful with email marketing once someone purchases, is key. And that’s everything that we discuss in this episode. Enjoy. Lianna, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?

Lianna Patch: 01:39 Thank you so much. I am great. How are you, Chris?

Chris Davis: 01:42 You know what, Lianna, we were catching up a little bit before the podcast. I have no complaints, but I am worried that winter is upon us up here. It’s coming a little faster than I anticipate. So, that’s my only worry in life at the moment.

Lianna Patch: 02:00 I don’t envy you there, because I have been in Chicago for the winter and that it is brutal. But also I’ve been dealing with a thousand-degree heat since February. We’re all just praying for death down here. It’s great.

Chris Davis: 02:11 It’s the extremes, right? We’ve got to find somewhere right in the middle where it’s beautiful every single day of every single year.

Lianna Patch: 02:19 I think they call that place “California.”

Chris Davis: 02:22 [inaudible 00:02:22].

Lianna Patch: 02:24 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Davis: 02:25 Right? So, Lianna, give everybody some insight on your background and your business.

Lianna Patch: 02:33 Sure. I’m a conversion copywriter, which means that I write based on what we know about users and customers. I start with customer data and I go from there. And my special thing is that I am interested in how humor helps build customer relationships and improve sales and retention and boost conversions. I’m working with online stores and software companies usually who are looking for funny, engaging emails and landing pages that actually make a real connection with people.

Chris Davis: 03:02 Great. Great. Now, were you always a writer, or did you discover this skill along the way?

Lianna Patch: 03:10 I think I’ve always been a writer. When I was a kid, I loved Hans Christian Anderson and I wrote my own short stories, which looking back, were so bad and just rip offs of his stories. They were very bad.

Chris Davis: 03:22 They were inspired, right?

Lianna Patch: 03:24 Yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, I was [inaudible 00:03:25], I’ll cut myself some slack. Then in college I actually thought that I was going to be a comic book artist. And so I was a studio art major for the first year of school. And then I realized I could either work really, really, really hard and be good, like okay, and then I was surrounded by people who were just very gifted. And so I had this crisis of confidence and I was talking to my dad and I was like, “What should I do?” And he was like, “Well, I always thought you’d be a writer,” who just sort of tossed that comment out there, and it’s like, “Wait, going with it. That’s what we’re doing.” So I ended up being a creative writing major.

Chris Davis: 04:01 Wow. That is so interesting. And I love the fact that you have the art background because what I’ve learned is a lot of people with an artistic bone, they bring that into what they do as far as marketing or whatnot. And I definitely have always believed that art has a huge place in marketing. Right?

Lianna Patch: 04:24 Oh, for sure. Yeah. We’re just attracted to things that look beautiful, aesthetically pleasing. That’s part of what I do as a conversion copywriter. And I’ll just deliver the copy, I have to wire frame it out. And I’m not a designer, but I can say like, “Here’s how the page should flow for best effect.”

Chris Davis: 04:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. We have quite a few users that are currently using either Shopify, WooCommerce, a few of them are using BigCommerce and we’re expanding our integrations because e-commerce, electronic commerce is really taking off. When you reached out to me and you were talking about, “Hey, can I come on and talk about some of the trends in e-commerce and post-sale nurturing?” I was like, “Absolutely, our audience needs to hear this.” So let’s start with some of the trends that you’ve been seeing. Good are bad, it doesn’t matter. Just what have you been seeing as the truth in the e-commerce space for startups in email marketing now?

Lianna Patch: 05:26 Well, as a person who is on Instagram probably too much and shops on Instagram a little bit too much, I have experienced this like Instagram Ad, to landing page sign up, to welcome nurturing emails to purchase funnel many times. Yeah, I’m making so many people, so much money on Instagram. It’s great. I need to stop shopping. Anyway, what I’m seeing, and this is almost universal, is that people will offer some sort of crazy discount on one product and you’ll go and you’ll get your discount, you’ll get your first order in and then all they have to do is just not mess it up too badly to get you to become a repeat customer. They lower the barrier to entry so much that it’s very easy for you to get you in the door. But, and this is the weird flip side of e-commerce that I’m seeing with email nurturing, sometimes people just drop the ball because they say, “Okay, I got you to buy. Now I’m just going to roll you into my regular email newsletter and just send you a sale email once a week, once every couple of weeks.”

Lianna Patch: 06:28 Instead of saying like, “How can I support you after buying this item?” Especially if it’s a higher-dollar item, like, “What questions might you have?” I’m doing a lot of work with mattress companies this year, which is strange. But it’s a hugely competitive space and so they have to really be on point with their email marketing. And it’s crazy the difference between some of the brands where I’ll get follow up email after you buy, there’s a follow-up email that’s like, “Hey, do you have questions about unpacking your mattress? If there’s off gassing it’ll go in a couple of days.

Lianna Patch: 07:00 “Here’s some sheets that you might like or a pillow that will go with it.” And those people are doing a really great job. And some of the other similar companies, same price range are just sending another sale email, it’s like, “I already have a mattress, I don’t need …” I’m kind of rambling, but there’s so much opportunity there and there’s so much work being done on the front end of the funnel, and if you don’t follow that up with very thoughtful, nurturing after the purchase, you’re missing out on a chance to continue selling to people who have already said they trust you, which is [inaudible 00:07:32].

Chris Davis: 07:32 Yeah. Yeah, which is depressing. It’s really depressing. And one thing that I’ve been speaking on lately, as far as trends, is we’ve come a long way in doing business online. I mean, it seems like just a few years ago I was in college and the internet was the devil. It was like, “Don’t you dare even put your real name in there. Everybody in the world is going to steal your identity,” and let alone let somebody know you’re buying something online, oh my goodness. They’re like, “You idiot, you’re never going to get the product, they’re going to empty out your bank …” There was just this total unwillingness to accept anything good could happen online and now it’s come …

Chris Davis: 08:17 I don’t even want to say full circle, it’s just done a 180, because now people will believe anything at anytime and if it’s not a reputable source, it doesn’t matter. As long as it makes me feel good, it validates what I believe. But what that leads to is an open willingness to spend more online. So what I wanted to ask you, a part of the trends that you’ve been seeing, are you seeing a positive, I should say, yeah, a growing willingness to purchase more high-ticket items online?

Lianna Patch: 08:56 I am both anecdotally and I think across industries because people are so used to now, I think Amazon is largely responsible for the idea that, “If I don’t like it, I can send it back.” And so, so many e-commerce stores are having to implement that very generous return policy. Even with high-ticket items, people are getting purchases by saying, “Hey, if you don’t like it, send it back.” And it can be risky. Obviously, that has to be worked into your business model and your cashflow and you need to know how many returns to expect. But the truth is that not a lot of people actually will return the thing and the trust that you generate by making that promise can be so much more valuable than just saying like, “Buy it and you’re stuck with it,” or, “Buy it and it’s a hassle to return it.”

Chris Davis: 09:38 Yeah. And I’ll admit, I love Amazon. I’m Prime since day one and every now and then I can find an item that same-day delivery. The crazy Lianna is, I will wait at home for that to be delivered to me and the price will be marginal to what I could have just drove to the store and purchased.

Lianna Patch: 09:59 I mean, I’m the same way. I could live in my house and never leave because. I’m doing a whole food delivery thing where I make recipes. I know people who get their toilet paper and paper towels delivered. It’s a weird phenomenon.

Chris Davis: 10:16 It is.

Lianna Patch: 10:18 [crosstalk 00:10:18] going outside. It’s great.

Chris Davis: 10:19 It just speaks to how technology is changing how we live our lives and do business. But on the other side of it, if these are the trends that we’re seeing, the question is, how as business owners can we take advantage of them, right? And not of the people, advantage of the trends to our benefit, which of course will benefit the customer on the end. So you started out, you were talking about how one of your clients does it real well with their mattress delivery, and they show you pairings and other items that may look really nice. How to unpack it, wash it, X, Y, Z. If you were to outline the idea, “After you have purchased my product, do this,” is that the approach that you recommend?

Lianna Patch: 11:06 Yeah, it depends on how complicated the product is. Or, again, if it’s expensive, maybe they need a little bit more handholding. But, basically, there’s always that post-purchase follow followup that says, “How is the item treating you? Are you enjoying it? Do you have questions?” And then you can follow up with something that supports their decision. Like, “Hey, by the way, our leggings are made from recycled water bottles and you made a really good choice for the environment when you bought them.” Or like, “Here’s the …” I’m going with the leggings thing because there’s a leggings brand that does this really well. “Here’s a yoga teacher who wears our leggings,” or, “Here’s an environmental initiative that we’re donating to.” So there’s opportunity to build loyalty on the other side of the purchase so that even if you have an item that you don’t necessarily need to buy again for a long time, like a mattress, you’ll build this sense of relationship and maybe that person will forward the email to someone who does need a mattress, or they’ll share their referral code.

Lianna Patch: 12:04 That’s something else I’d been seeing. There’s lots of platforms for people to get like 20 bucks off if they share a code. So, that should be worked into the post-purchase follow up. But, basically, the idea that you have to give value, it always comes back to value in email marketing. You have to educate people about what you’re doing, and why it’s helpful, and why it’s amazing, why they should care. Make them feel like they’re part of the group that they want to be part of. Like people who care about the environment. And then let them know what to do next. Should they buy again? Should they forward? Should they stay on the list?

Chris Davis: 12:36 You know what, Lianna, I was thinking of pop sockets. The little circular things that go on your phone. And I recently got one because I find out what it was. I thought It was just a little teeny bopper thing, but then I saw some respectable guys with it and I was like, “Wait a minute, what does this thing do?” And you pick it up. It doesn’t take much description. You pop it out and you figure out how it works. But here’s where I was pleasantly surprised. I open up the packaging and it’s got probably the most simple instruction manual. But it’s just illustrations of different ways it could be used.

Chris Davis: 13:16 And what I found with that was that when a new customer or when someone becomes a customer, your onboarding the education of that is not to just help them understand something that they don’t know, is to validate what they already do. It’s an opportunity to submit what they knew as permanent. Now I knew it could be used two or three ways, but seeing it and it was so simple, right? It was just pictures of, “You can do this, use it this way.” It just help me like, “Never forget.”

Lianna Patch: 13:50 Yeah. That’s awesome. And that’s one of the things that I love about the process that I go through as a conversion copywriter and that most of us do, is that you’ll find those uses that you hadn’t even thought of from the customer research for your own product. People will be like, “Oh, well, I thought I’ll just use it this way.” And you’re like, “Oh my God, who would have …?” And then that becomes one of your value propositions.

Chris Davis: 14:12 Yeah, absolutely. Now, can we draw a line, whether it be dotted or direct to the efficiency of the education in your onboarding and the retention of your customers? Is there any relationship between the two?

Lianna Patch: 14:30 I mean, I’m sure there is. I’m not sure what do you mean by “efficiency,” but as long as you’re giving value, then people will want to stay on the list.

Chris Davis: 14:42 I guess what I’m thinking of is mattress folks. Let’s stick with the mattress folks. The mattress folks, they do a good job, right? Of, “Hey, here’s how you wash it. Here’s how he put it on, here’s how you do this.” Is there, and it can be anecdotal or by data, have you seen the customers that go through an experience like that tend to churn less or stay longer?

Lianna Patch: 15:07 They definitely have fewer customer service inquiries. That cuts down on returns. Yeah, because you’re answering questions that people would otherwise have to call and find out or start a chat support ticket because you’re just sending it right to them. It’s easier on your team and it’s easier on your churn-and-return bottom line. I’m just saying [inaudible 00:15:28], you know what I mean.

Chris Davis: 15:31 We got you. The metrics, right? Those metrics that means people don’t leave?

Lianna Patch: 15:36 Yes. It’s like the preemptive problem solving so that you don’t have an overload of support tickets or problems.

Chris Davis: 15:44 Yes, yes. Listen, talking to you is just bringing back to my memory all of the post-purchase sequences I’ve gone through. And one is, I recently did a … it was a home thermostat, electronic thermostat and no paper, no paper for onboarding. It was all in the app on the phone and it literally walked you through every step. And when I went through it, I was just like, at first I was judging it because … honestly, I felt like I’d rather have paper, especially when you’re wiring stuff and everything. I don’t know. It just feels like paper is safe instead of my phone. But it worked really well and I felt like it was very efficient to helping me get to the finish line faster. And now, and I may have mentioned this on a previous podcast about my experience with that, but now months later I’m satisfied and I haven’t even thought or had an issue with the thing because I got started the right way.

Lianna Patch: 16:52 Did they supplement that in-app onboarding experience with emails?

Chris Davis: 16:57 They did not.

Lianna Patch: 16:57 They didn’t? Okay.

Chris Davis: 16:57 They did not. A huge opportunity because there was a point I was so satisfied with this thing, I probably would have bought something else.

Lianna Patch: 17:09 Yeah, for sure. Did they ask for a review, at least?

Chris Davis: 17:12 Nothing.

Lianna Patch: 17:15 What? Okay. That’s just …

Chris Davis: 17:16 You know what, which is great. It kind of naturally segues us into the next part I wanted to talk about. If you were to provide somebody with a checklist of things, not saying they have to do them all, but it’s kind of like, “Have you thought about this, this and this when it pertains to the onboarding or whatnot?” What would that check list encompass?

Lianna Patch: 17:38 From start to finish with email marketing?

Chris Davis: 17:40 Yeah.

Lianna Patch: 17:41 Okay. For any e-commerce brand, you’re going to want to have a welcome series. You’re going to want to have a nurturing series that explains what your brand is about. Again, why they should care. I’m seeing a lot of brands take the social-justice angle, like, “We donate to this charity,” or, “We’re eco-conscious,” and I think that really works, especially for the millennial market because we’re like, “Oh, the world is burning down around us. I’m going to buy an environmentally friendly pair of underwear,” on a subscription model or whatever it is. And that’s for me as a humor-focus writer, that’s where you start to bring in your personality and you start to see what people find funny. And you can actually test humor in those emails.

Lianna Patch: 18:24 There’s so many things to test, as you know, with email marketing, like frequencies, you see when people start to drop off, maybe you’re emailing too much. You can push the envelope a little bit with humor and see how people react because you want replies. Even if it’s a mass email, you want somebody to write back and be like, “This made me laugh,” or, “This made my day,” or click through and buy because they’re so excited about your brand. And that’s one way to stand out from just the mass blasting that’s still happening, which amazes me because we’re so used to being marketed to. As people with inboxes, we’re so ready to tune things out. So it’s really important to give your brand a personality and be almost a person in their inbox. Make your brand into a presence that they expect and they look forward to hearing from.

Lianna Patch: 19:13 It’s almost hard to describe it, you know it when you see it, right? If there’s an email from a brand that you look forward to opening, or you don’t just mark it red, then you’re succeeding. So the welcome series is that one thing. Ideally you get them to that first purchase. Then you have your transactional emails, your order confirmation, your shipping confirmation. That is one of my favorite places to optimize for clients because people just, especially with Shopify, they’ll just leave the default copy in there. And it’s such a let down, especially if someone has worked really hard in the welcome series, and they’re so personable and you order from them and then you get this [inaudible 00:19:49], generic order confirmation. It’s like, “Oh, they actually only cared about me until I spent money.”

Lianna Patch: 19:56 So, going in there, even if it’s just tweaking a couple sentences and being like, “Hey, from the team, thanks for buying,” or like, “We’re so excited for you.” Just reinforce that positive feeling and keep that tone cohesive throughout the experience. You have the transactional emails and then you have to figure out, “What’s a win for this person after they buy?” Right? Check in, make sure that the item was okay, make sure they’re happy, get your review or your testimonial. And then, “What else could they possibly need?” How can you continue to provide value before you just roll them back into the newsletter list? And it’s okay to keep sending them larger email blasts or your regular sale emails but just be thoughtful is my advice, I think, be thoughtful about how that post-purchase flow goes.

Chris Davis: 20:43 Yeah. And you know what? This is why people like yourself are extremely important because what you would do is you’ll sit down with the business owner and you’ll help them understand exactly who it is that’s opening that package, right? Who it is, what problem they’re trying to solve, and what emotion to pour. Because my wife and I, we order from this brand online and she started ordering first and then I started ordering. Now she was like, “Oh my gosh, these emails are amazing.” She loved it. It was just like they were bubbly, this, this and that. Guess what happened when I got the emails? The first email I hit “Unsubscribe” because for me-

Lianna Patch: 21:28 It was too much for you, yeah.

Chris Davis: 21:30 … it was too much for me. Right there I was thinking like, “I hope they are doing their due diligence and understand that I liked the product,” and I still buy the product. I just don’t want the emails. But my wife, she wants the product and the emails. So, hopefully, they understand that. And maybe for this brand there’s a difference with marketing to males and females, and maybe that’s the case, but your onboarding is going to have to be tailored to your prime … The language, of course, is not going to apply to everybody. But it doesn’t have to, because in fact, the language in it was so good that it got my wife to tell me about it and I bought it. So that’s a win.

Lianna Patch: 22:12 Yeah. And I think that’s the baseline, having those emails that are tailored to your perfect customer because most e-commerce stores have a variety of different customers and they’re all perfectly valid. Maybe one buys more than the other. But starting with that baseline and then using that as a template for different versions of the email. And you look at your data and you say, “Okay, a person who buys item A is more likely to come back and buy item B in the future, but they’re really not interested in items C through Z. We’ll tailor the version of our, either welcome series or post-purchase sequence or both, to make sure that we’re giving them what they need to hear or what they’re interested in. And maybe we know from the data that they’re not interested in this bubbly version of the email. So we tone it down.”

Chris Davis: 22:59 Yes, yes. Now, how deep do you, or I should say, how granular do you get with your follow-up with e-commerce stores that maybe have a variety of products? I mean, do you get down to the product level or is it more so the best selling products? Is it a category? How do you handle the onboarding when they have such a wide variety of products?

Lianna Patch: 23:25 There are some great plugins that have logic built in for that kind of thing. So if you don’t know anything about the customer yet or they haven’t bought yet, you might show the best selling products. And it’s always good to say like, “Hey, these are what other people are buying.” Like, “You’re not alone,” is the main message of copy all the time. Like, “You’re not alone, you’re not the first person to think about doing this.” So, you make a tailored recommendation like, “Buy this best selling product.” And then if they buy that, you might show them items in that same category or that same color or that other customers bought after buying that item. Conversio is an app that I used to work with that does that. They do a lot of great stuff. They do awesome [inaudible 00:24:05] emails and follow ups.

Lianna Patch: 24:07 I know Shopify probably does it. I’m sure all of the major platforms have that logic, but it’s whether people are taking advantage of it. And one thing that I want to mention that I see people trip over all the time is that they think, “Okay, I’m going to send a post-purchase email, and I’m going to put everything I want the customer to do in this one email.” So you get an email that’s like, “Hey, leave us a star rating. Also, write a testimonial or a review for us. Also, share this referral code. Also, follow us on Instagram.” And it’s like, “No,” too much stuff, information overload. You’re not going to get anything good from that. So instead aim to send four shorter emails over a longer period of time to get them to do those things one at a time.

Chris Davis: 24:52 It makes sense.

Lianna Patch: 24:53 When you [inaudible 00:24:54] email. Yeah.

Chris Davis: 24:54 Now have you seen a multichannel approach be more effective as well? Maybe they send an email and then a couple days later, maybe they mix it up with a Facebook Messenger or I don’t know, some other channel for communication. Have you seen that work well or is that something that you’re seeing more and more of?

Lianna Patch: 25:15 I have heard from colleagues in e-commerce space that that is working really well. I actually want to get into ManyChat and start working with Chatbox. I’ve been re-targeted in good and bad ways. It absolutely works to be wherever your customer is and reiterate that message and get them familiar with you. And sometimes you might have to make like 10 impressions before they’re ready to buy or more. But the flip side of being the perfect Instagram customer, which I am, is that people are not setting their retargeting logic to talk to their shop platform. So I’m getting re-targeted for stuff that I’ve already bought as if I don’t know what it is. They’re like, “Try this comforter, it’s so fluffy and great.” And I’m like, “Y’all, I bought it. You’re wasting your money showing me this ad.” And so obnoxiously because this is who I am, I’ll just leave a comment and be like, “You’re wasting your money. Let me know if you need help with that.”

Chris Davis: 26:12 Yeah. You just pay for this pointless click in impressions.

Lianna Patch: 26:16 Yeah.

Chris Davis: 26:17 Yes. So, tell me this, I want to take off the email hat just for a second and put on the copywriter hat, all right?

Lianna Patch: 26:25 Cool, my favorite hat.

Chris Davis: 26:26 One of the areas I see people struggle with across the board, Lianna, it does not matter if they’ve been in business for 10, 20 years or two years, right? Across the board I’ve seen this, is understanding the avatar. And when you walk somebody through an avatar exercise and you’re asking questions like, “Where would this person shop?” And they’re looking at you like, “My store online?” Like, “No.” Actually get in the seat. What are some things that you’ve found to be helpful in that process?

Lianna Patch: 27:05 I am a huge fan of the sort of four-pronged research approach and I don’t do all of it because some of it is very data oriented and technical. So I work with people who go through the data, but there’s this idea that there’s the technical analysis where we make sure that we’re not losing anybody on the store because something is technically broken or not loading. There’s quantitative data that’s showing us where people are coming from, how old they are, all that Google analytics stuff. All the demographics, location, things like that. And then there’s the qualitative research, which is what I focus on. I know I only said three of them. Heuristic is the other one, which is like, what overall could be broken? Let’s look at that. Anyway, focusing in on the qualitative research is usually where people get the best return for their time and effort because we’re going to be asking questions like, what was going on in your life that brought you here today?

Lianna Patch: 27:57 What problem are you hoping this product will solve for you? How are you feeling about …? how would you feel if this product solved your problem? And just getting very deep into the emotion of the person and understanding the journey that brought them to this point. There are lots of tools that will help you do that, but also interviewing customers and saying like, “Were you considering our competitors? What was exciting about them versus us?” And again, it can reveal things, the unknown unknowns that you weren’t even considering. Just like when people say they use your product for a way you didn’t expect, they might’ve been attracted to your product for something you didn’t even know about, and you can start using that in your messaging. Did I answer your question? I kind of [crosstalk 00:28:42].

Chris Davis: 28:46 Yeah. No, no, that makes sense. That makes sense, because I find that a lot of people struggle answering those questions because you really can’t just think of the answers.

Lianna Patch: 28:54 No. You have to talk to the real people and I think, finally, I think we’re debunking this idea that you can just sit down in a room with your marketing [inaudible 00:29:01] and like, “Come with your customer avatar.” And like, “Her name is Maria and she’s 35,” and this is not a real person, you made her up. So start with the data to get a general sense and then find those people and ask them questions or better yet, send them surveys, three questions at a time, short and sweet. Get their actual qualitative feedback and give them an open-ended opportunity to answer. Instead of yes or no answers, which again, that’s helpful to the quantitative side and understand your basic group of people. You give them a big text [inaudible 00:29:32] and say like, “How are you feeling? What are you looking for?” And sometimes people don’t know, but the way that they phrase what they’re looking for can be revelatory too.

Chris Davis: 29:42 Yeah. I like that you said “short and sweet” surveys too. I’m not kidding. I received a survey request from a brand that shall remain nameless, and at the top, it was a survey and it said, “Estimated time for completion, 20 minutes.”

Lianna Patch: 30:08 Oh God. Yeah, no, I have many profanity-laced things to say about that.

Chris Davis: 30:09 Yes. It was ridiculous. I was in disbelief, honestly. So I said, “Ah, they probably miscalculated. Let me finish the first five questions, hit “Next” and see how far my progress bar moved.” And sure enough, it just moved a little bit. I got out of it, deleted the email, unsubscribed from wherever they were and they last me forever.

Lianna Patch: 30:31 Yeah. Yeah. That’s insane to me. And brands should know better doing that same thing. I say like, “If we’re going to send [inaudible 00:30:38], especially if it’s open-ended questions that ask people to think and that requires cognitive energy, let’s keep it to three questions or better yet, let’s choose the most important question and just send that.” And then if you can send it as an email, allow them [inaudible 00:30:53] typing inside the email, a lot of the review platforms have been us right now like [Yapo 00:30:57], you can just start writing your emails or writing your review inside the email and that triggers the person to think like, “I’ve started something now I have to finish it.” Go on and finish shit.

Chris Davis: 31:08 Oh, that’s good. That’s good. All right. Well Lianna, thank you so much for coming onto the podcast. If people want to connect with you, learn more about you, where can they go?

Lianna Patch: 31:19 They can find me at punchlinecopy.com and snapcopy.co.

Chris Davis: 31:23 All right, great. All of those links will be at the bottom of the show notes, activecampaign.com/podcast for all of the podcasts. Of course, Lianna, again, I really appreciate you taking the time to come in on the podcast and talking about some trends, some onboarding and some things that, hopefully, people will not commit as mistakes any more in their marketing.

Lianna Patch: 31:48 Yes. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me. [crosstalk 00:31:48], yeah.

Chris Davis: 31:48 Yes, it’s been fun. It’s been real fun, Lianna, I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to this episode of the ActiveCampaign podcast. Listen, we’ve doubled down on onboarding. In episode 71 we talked to [Ally Bloom 00:32:03] and she was walking us through onboarding and now we have the pleasure of Lianna to give a more detailed perspective of onboarding for e-commerce stores or owners or online users. And I think my big takeaway was that you have to be willing to talk to them how they want to be talked to, in the channel that they prefer to be reached in, and give them the understanding to reach satisfaction with your product as fast as possible. A lot of times, after we’ve purchased something, there’s a time and a gap difference between purchase and satisfaction.

Chris Davis: 32:47 And a lot of the times, education bridges that gap. So, use education effectively. Use it to your advantage, as Lianna has done, as we do here at ActiveCampaign, I am a heavy advocate for that. You all already know, and you also already know that this is the ActiveCampaign podcast. But what I don’t know is if you’re subscribed, if you have taken my open invitation to join a family of small business listeners that listen to this podcast every week for the benefit of their future success. If that’s not you, now’s the time. Subscribe to the podcast. We’re on iTunes, Stitcher Radio, Google Play, SoundCloud, anywhere where you could subscribe, we are there. If you want to see all of our previous episodes, activecampaign.com/podcast and while we’re sharing URLs and things, places to go, we also have dedicated one-on-one training available for you if you’re stuck or you’re confused in any capacity with ActiveCampaign and getting started with your business, activecampaign.com/training is where you can go and sign up for one on one.

Chris Davis: 33:55 However, there is one more thing that I realized I would like you to do once you subscribe because I’m believing this episode is good enough for you to say, “You know what? I want to hear what else is out there.” When you’re in iTunes, leave a five-star rating and review. That helps get the word out, everybody. That helps vet us as a solid and worthy-to-be-listened-to podcast amongst the sea of podcasts in business. So, do that for me. It will be greatly appreciated. Last but not least, if you want to learn on your own, take a more self-guided approach to ActiveCampaign. We’ve got you covered on that front as well.

Chris Davis: 34:33 In the Education Center, you’ll find guides, manuals, videos, webinars, courses. We just released our latest course “Getting started with ActiveCampaign,” and you can find that in the education center, activecampaign.com/learn, if you want to go straight to the course, you can go to courses.activecampaign.com. All right, that’s everything. You have all that you need to find success the way you prefer. All right, this is the ActiveCampaign podcast, the small-business podcast to help you scale and propel your business with automation. I’ll see you on the next episode.

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